gibsonm Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hi one and all, I'm looking at buying a 2nd hand 400MHz G4 Mac that comes with a built in GeForce2 MX-400 64Mb AGP graphics card. I can also purchase a ATI Radeon 32Mb AGP card as an alternative. I'm not too concerned about detail (good images / effects are preferred - but I don't need to know if the guy has shaved this morning or not). Transparent smoke and fog etc are required. Based on the comprehensive comparison in November (the links to the images no longer work, at least not in Safari), is the built in GeForce card sufficient for CMBO / CMBB or should I buy the Radeon (or maybe buy a Radeon 8500 or 9000 - although I understand there are issues running these with OS 9.2.2)? The screen to be driven is a 21" AppleVision monitor. Hope to hear from you soon, BTW - Hopefully I can give some feedback next week about performance on the 15" 1GHz / 1Gb G4 PowerBook. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 If the Radeon is cheaper, you might do well to go with that. CM isn't going to look any better with 64MB than 32MB on a Mac due to downsampling issues. I don't know anything about the 2MX-400. I had a standard 2MX with 32MB. It was okay for what I used it for, but I don't play any really demanding games. The general word on the MX line of nVidias is that they aren't too hot. The only problem that I know of with the Radeons is that they don't do fog in CM. If that's a serious consideration for you be so advised. Good luck. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Michael emrys: Radeons is that they don't do fogNot quite true (yes with PC ATI cards) but not with the Mac ATI retail 32mb card which I have installed in my DP450 G4 and in the survey of screen shots had this said by tec - "You'll be pleased to know, your CMBB looks the best of the one's I've seen! I've put it in a thread on the main forum, and yours is the example of "non-fuzzy" infantry uniforms, next to a fuzzy on taken on a PCI 32mb Radeon. Whatever driver/settings/resolution combination you are using, it is the right one." Smoke and Fog work a treat with this card and drivers, but it seems all the subsequent Mac ATI cards 7500 9500, with 64 and 128mb of vram, fall short in all round performance CMBB (esp' smoke and fog) which has added to the confusion. I was considering getting a dual 866 or 1 Ghz and whilst the turns might I've been processed quicker it seems that the visual experience wouldn't have been significantly better?!? Therefore I'm happily sticking with the combo I have and will upgrade when CM3 appears. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 Let me clarify. The GeForce2 MX-400 64Mb AGP graphics card comes with the machine (i.e. part of the purchase price). I can also purchase a ATI Radeon 32Mb AGP card seperately (i.e as an additional expense). Its not a case of "either, or". Based on that should I spend the extra money and buy the Radeon (resulting in a "spare" GeForce) or settle for the built in GeForce only? [ January 11, 2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: gibsonm ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytarget Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 i don't know anything about mac's does the radeon on a mac fail to do fog at all like it fails to do on pc's? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 The ATI Radeons on the Mac can handle fog under RAVE. On the PC under DirectX ATI doesn't support fog-tables (also called pixel fog). I'm under the impression that ATI will never support fog-tables under DirectX since they are incompatible with another graphic routine (according to ATI) that is much more important to ATI. As for the question at hand... I'd suggest purchasing the Radeon. This will give you the best graphical presentation on the Mac for CMB0 & CMBB. NVidia may continue to improve the RAVE drivers, but I'd guess that most of their efforts are geared towards OpenGL (and OS X.x). With the next engine being coded in OpenGL for graphics, NVidia might have a slight advantage on ATI by that time on the Mac (but that's more than two years from now). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Gibsonm..from the sounds of your description of the nVidia card....it looks like the previous owner "flashed" a PC version of the GF2 MX with a Mac ROM. I would first ask the owner if it is at all possible for you to try out CM on his machine before buying it. I am not sure how the flashed card would handle CM..so best try test first. Have to say though that i would go with the Radeon card for CM grapix. regards Måkjager [ January 11, 2003, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Måkjager ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Originally posted by Wicky: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: Radeons is that they don't do fogNot quite true (yes with PC ATI cards) but not with the Mac ATI retail 32mb card which I have installed in my DP450 G4...</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 One more vote for Radeon. As long as you're staying with OS9 it's better card overall. GF has all kinds of troubles with CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecumseh Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by gibsonm: I can also purchase a ATI Radeon 32Mb AGP card seperately (i.e as an additional expense). (good images / effects are preferred - but I don't need to know if the guy has shaved this morning or not) Based on that, I'd say stick with the GF2. CMBB looks a bit blurry up close (subtle - most people wouldn't notice) but it displays weather correctly and is an OK card for something you're getting for free. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 bump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchlstrt Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 This sort of thing is also being dicussed in 'Mac Downsampling' on the CMBB board. There was a Driver update in October I think I missed & a Firmware update a few days ago for my retail Radeon 7000 PCI. I'm going to try them on Tuesday & I'll let you know what happens w/ me. There's also a Radeon 9000 update listed at VersionTracker, btw. strt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Just installed a 32MB AGP Radeon in my G4/400. Bought it at an extortionate price at Ebay. But it makes a whole different world to the CM experience. Very nice detail, crisp graphics, fast scrolling. No issues with smoke/fog as far as I can tell at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: Just installed a 32MB AGP Radeon in my G4/400. Bought it at an extortionate price at Ebay. But it makes a whole different world to the CM experience. Very nice detail, crisp graphics, fast scrolling. No issues with smoke/fog as far as I can tell at the moment. Welcome to the ATI Radeon 'club' - Mine is still going strong after 3 years, bought brand new for £200, and has shone with CMBO and CMBB. Now just waiting for CMAK then CMX 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Ah well, that puts the 'extortionate' in perspective. I paid £106 on Ebay (card was never used though, wrapping untouched). Very nice and crisp. I think I go back to a completely unmodded CMBB now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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