It's still a problem

[Calvin]

Hi all-

Likely this complaint is stated frequently elsewhere, but I'll add to the chorus.

That is, the infantry & spotting model. Still broken.

8 Stryker vehicles standing overwatch. Two machine squads deployed. Immediately Syrian targets open up on them and they are cut to pieces.

Neither the infantry nor the AFV's are able to spot even a presumptive target. None of the Stryker vehicles bother to open fire to suppress the enemy.

My one choice here is to zoom in to the physical buildings themselves, try to discern where the fire is coming from, then direct each individual unit to open up via the "Area Fire" command.

This is both cumbersome and unrealistic and makes the game near unplayable.

[SlowMotion]

This Strykers not firing sounds much like what I wrote here (scroll until you see 2 Stryker screen shots):

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=003160

[Pandur]

i think the blue side allready sees enough, just in some cases there are oddities with LOS/LOF wich are hopefully adressed, but these addities count for both sides.

in 1.04 at least the squads arent too reluctant to fire. sometimes they have the "spotting/aiming" loop when they see a target but something tells em they shouldnt fire(it is mostly verry frustating).

the vehicles sure needs more initiative to use their weapons. but again thats all vehicles, not just the strykers. BTR´s for example are verry reluctant to use their 14.5 on infantry. they shouldnt do it too often, just when they think its a good situation but currently they dont do it. but they do ok with the 7.62, they use this rather good.

the best would be at vehicles with mainguns to have something like a "behaviour" selection, with 2 or 3 simple behaviours like:

"dont use maingun, except on vehicles"( could be called cautious)

"use maingun partly for infantry and as usual on vehicles"(regular)

"use maingun agressively vs infantry and as usual vs every other threat/vehicle"(agressive)

ovcourse the names could be different, but just to have a example of what i mean. anyways, as far as one can read there are allready brains behind that, thinking on how this could be solved. so i guess BFC will come up with a good solution to the "when to fire wich gun" problem.

[M1A1TC]

I had a Stryker spot an infantry squad. I saw the gunner of Stryker open and close the hatch 5 times, then on 6th time he stayed up and fired on enemy infantry.

What is causing this behavior? Why didnt he fired right away?

[MikeyD]

My guess is the guy was right on the edge of LOS. Down he sees it, up he doesn't, down he see it, up he doesn't. Usually it would be the other way around - up he sees all, down he goes blind.

[Calvin]

Hey fellahs-

Good input, but I think the main point (which my earlier post may not have driven home) is that AFV's and other units assigned to over watch do not open up on opforce targets firing at advancing or other infantry.

In the example above, I dismounted two MG squads. Both immediately took heavy fire. Not a singe AFV or even the already dismounted squads on the right took a single step to suppress this fire, non fired a shot. I had deployed the two MG squads several meters away from the target and only a few meters away from the Strykers. I had ordered them deployed to build up the already substantial overwatch forces supporting the main assault.

Those forces included 8 total Stryker vehicles. And not a single one opened up to supress Syrian fire. Instead, the two MG squads were cut to pieces over a good 4 minute period.

That is simply ridiculous and needs to be fix. Maybe a new "overwatch" command needs to be added to incline such units to fire/suppress potential sources of enemy fire.

Until then, this thing is a joke.

Unless of course you've got Abrams to waltz in, draw fire, and waste anything that moves.

[MarkEzra]

Calvin: I've been testing (repetitive) a scen of mine involving Strykers and their dismount in the attack. The Redforce is Mech/Inf with deployed MGs. I have absolutely NO TROUBLE with these Strykers reaction to targets...They shoot up everything they see and are taking punishment in return from RPG and 30mm/ATGM BMP. The dismounts are moving ahead, taking minimal casualties. The testing is done in RT and I give NO COMMANDS...Just watch as Hidden FO.

There is some talk that 1.04 fixes may not be taking hold in SOME rigs. Of this I have No idea. If true, Perhaps you are in that situation.

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

My guess is the guy was right on the edge of LOS. Down he sees it, up he doesn't, down he see it, up he doesn't. Usually it would be the other way around - up he sees all, down he goes blind.

Reminds me of listening to some of my tanker buddies when I was OPFOR.

TC: Target, tank, right front.

Gunner: Where?

TC: Right there, by that big pine tree.

Gunner: I don't see it.

TC: Well come up here.

Gunner: Oh, there it is.

TC (After gunner returns to seat): Ok now kill it.

Gunner: Well now I can't see it.

TC: [Much randome cussing]!

[thewood]

Originally posted by MarkEzra:

Calvin: I've been testing (repetitive) a scen of mine involving Strykers and their dismount in the attack. The Redforce is Mech/Inf with deployed MGs. I have absolutely NO TROUBLE with these Strykers reaction to targets...They shoot up everything they see and are taking punishment in return from RPG and 30mm/ATGM BMP. The dismounts are moving ahead, taking minimal casualties. The testing is done in RT and I give NO COMMANDS...Just watch as Hidden FO.

There is some talk that 1.04 fixes may not be taking hold in SOME rigs. Of this I have No idea. If true, Perhaps you are in that situation.

I have also done extensive testing on Strykers reacting. Every now and then, I get a stubborn one, but mostly they react well. I have found that they tend not to fire on thier own over around 500m. between 400 and 600 it almost seems random, but closer than 400 and you will get hosed by a Stryker.

[M1A1TC]

Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq):

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MikeyD:

My guess is the guy was right on the edge of LOS. Down he sees it, up he doesn't, down he see it, up he doesn't. Usually it would be the other way around - up he sees all, down he goes blind.

Reminds me of listening to some of my tanker buddies when I was OPFOR.

TC: Target, tank, right front.

Gunner: Where?

TC: Right there, by that big pine tree.

Gunner: I don't see it.

TC: Well come up here.

Gunner: Oh, there it is.

TC (After gunner returns to seat): Ok now kill it.

Gunner: Well now I can't see it.

TC: [Much randome cussing]! </font>

[Calvin]

Hey all-

Interesting that mileage varies here.

In the scenario I outlined, the Strykers were well within 400 yards of the Syrian forces firing (from a stone building) on the MG squads. Also, I had two other MG squads already deployed within line of sight of the targets.

Not sure what the discrepancy here is, but it's frustrating. I have no problem with a game that simulates the difficulty of spotting enemy forces, or punishes bad tactics (in fact, that's what I hope for!) but this is just ridiculous. I mean, there was a used car lot full of Strykers, two MG squads and an HQ team already deployed, and nobody fired a shot.

And damn if that Syrian automatic fire wasn't immediately accurate!

[Calvin]

PS> Forgot to say, particular thanks to MarkEzra for the trial scenario/report he provided.