RPG-7, variants and rockets

[Kwazydog]

Hi Guys,

Just posting this here for those whom may have missed it in the other threads. Ill answer some question from those threads below, too...

Another small update just to give you guys some info as to what has been going on behind the scenes. This week amongst other things Ive spent a bunch of time researching the various details of RPG-7’s and the types of rockets available for them. The RPG is a reliable and versatile weapon on the battlefield, and should prove to be an effective weapon for the Syrian player.

What you see in the below render is what we currently have in the RPG-7’s arsenal. Following is a description of each…

Larger Image

The RPG-7 launchers, from bottom to top…

RPG-7V – older version of the RPG-7 with plain iron sights. Whilst RPG’s usually come with the telescopic scope as standard these days there is a large amount in use without, as you have probably seen in many photos from Iraq. Whilst not as effective out to range is it readily available and should be a common sight on the battlefield. The last of a scope reduces its ability to attack distant or moving targets, but it is still a deadly weapon to be on the wrong end of. The 7V is limited to the PG-7V and PG-7VL rockets.

RPG-7V/V1 with PGO-7 telescopic sight – RPG-7 with the PGO-7 sight attached. This sight improves accuracy out to a greater range and against moving vehicles. It is calibrated from 200 to 500 meters by intervals of 100 meters and has a magnification of 2.5x. It is equipped with polarizing glass which improves the vision of the gunner in bright conditions.

RPG-7V1 with 1PN51 night scope – This is the newer RPG-7V1 capable of firing a wider range of rounds with the 1PN51 night scope replacing the regular telescopic sight. Don’t expect to see too many of these but they could give a US player an unpleasant surprise when encountered. The Syrians have been actively acquiring night vision gear for the past few years and this is a readily available Russian night vision device. It can be attached to pretty much anything from an AK-47 onwards using the standard Russian scope attachment, but expect to see is reserved for support weapons such as the RPG’s, PKM’s and possibly the SVD sniper rifle. It has a 3x magnification and depending on conditions can pick up an individual out to 400m and a vehicle out to 700m at night.

The rockets, again from bottom to top…

PG-7V – This is a standard HEAT rocket designed for taking out armored vehicles. It has been produced in vast qualities in one form or another since ’61 with an armor penetration or around 260mm and an effective max range of around 350m. Whilst there are now considerably more potent AT round available this type is still available in large quantities.

PG-7VR – This is one of the most modern RPG rounds available. It had a tandem warhead designed for defeating vehicles with ERA (explosive reactive armor) or composite armor. Due to its weight its range is reduce to around 200m but it can penetrate around 600-700mm worth of armor after any ERA has been defeated. This will likely be the least common of the rounds available.

OG-7V – High explosive anti-Personal fragmentation grenade with an effective burst area of around 150m2 and is designed to be effective against troops wearing body armor. It has an effective range of around 280m and is effective against troops in buildings, trenches or bunkers.

PG-7VL – This is a standard modern HEAT RPG round. It is larger than the PG-7V and has a penetration of around 500mm. Its effect range is around 300m and due to its high explosive nature is effective against a range of targets.

TBG-7V – This round is a thermobaric or fuel air explosive round. It is designed for use against infantry including those in buildings and trenches and is also effective against light armored vehicles. The warhead has an high explosive, fragmentation incendiary effect when detonated. It can have a devastating effect if detonated in an enclosed space.

The RPG-7 should certainly be an interesting weapon for the Syrian player to use in a variety of situations. Ill try and get some more weapon info out to you guys within the next week or two, probably looking at the Syrian players small arms next. I hope you found that of interest!

Dan

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Toleran, we have done a lot of research into the RPG's...a lot of info is harder to find than you would expect it to be! [snips]

What information would that be?

All the best,

John. </font>

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

Nice. So ammunition will be seperated from the weapon?

Not too sure what you mean Hellfish. If you mean are they kept track of seperately then yes I beleive so, but grab Steve when he is around to be 100% sure or if your asking anything further with regards to game mechanics that which isnt related to the visuals .

If you mean visually then yes, unless time gets away on us we should actually be able to show the RPG gunner pull the warhead out of his back pack, attach the motor and load the complete unit into his launcher. When launched the motor will be spent and you should see the fins deploy.

As always though, remember that until things are finalised any details can change, even what items we find are available to the Syrians and what time permits us to model.

Dan

[ July 14, 2006, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[MikeyD]

I'd swear I've seen that bottle-shaped round at the top in a pict of a weapons cache discovered in Iraq earlier this year. I had assumed it was just a fat HE round. Are you saying thermobaric RPGs have made their war into Iraq, or did I just mis-ID the round?

[Kwazydog]

Interesting , and really nice renders of the RPG-7.

About the rockets :

Is the PG-7V (I think that's the name (it's the most basic one) used against infantry?

Is the PG-7V the one they used in the movie Blackhawk down, and if it is, is it as inefficient(vs infantry) as it appears in the movie or am I dazzled by hollywood magic?

//Salkin

The PG-7V is a HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) round, so the high explosive part does still pose a threat again infantry. It is a directed blast though, so you cant expect the results to be extremely effective unless the infantry. It would certainly be enough to encourage them to keep their heads down though!

Dan

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by Gryphon:

Is this all final artwork as well? or is it still alpha as mentioned in the previous blog? :| well, even if it's final it looks absofrigginlutely fantastic! hats off to you BF!

I can't wait to experience the same amount of excitement I've had when firing up CM for the very first time!

Well its Alpha as in anything can change at this point, but these are reasonably final with regards to models and textures.

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by Nick Carter:

What software are you guys using to make the models? Ever since I got into 3D modelling (with Rhino) I've wanted to ask...

Yup as mentioned we are using 3D Max 8 currently for out modelling and character animation (it has Character Studio built in now). We use Photoshop for the texture creation, plus I have a few other bits and pieces I use from time to time.

[John Kettler]

KwazyDog,

Good stuff! I think, though, that the shininess, especially on the ammo, needs to be toned down. News footage I've seen of RPGs in battle doesn't show any shine at all that I can recall.

Black has lots of cool weapons, but even the black ones look chromed. And don't get me started on the gunmetal . Bleah! Please avoid that visual look at all costs.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

KwazyDog,

Good stuff! I think, though, that the shininess, especially on the ammo, needs to be toned down. News footage I've seen of RPGs in battle doesn't show any shine at all that I can recall.

Black has lots of cool weapons, but even the black ones look chromed. And don't get me started on the gunmetal . Bleah! Please avoid that visual look at all costs.

Regards,

John Kettler

Hehe, tell me about it.

Actually I think your probably right John, Ill be looking at the lighting properties once we get finalised in game and if need be Ill tone it down some. I based the colouring and lighting for the render on the below PDF which shows (I beleive) Russian sold variants of the rounds. Again, different manufactures have different colors for the same rounds, so it can be really hard working out what each should in fact look like what...the bulgarians for instance appear to use a very dark brown (which actually has a great shine).

http://www.milparade.com/catalog/pdf/101.pdf

Dan

[vetacon]

Kwayz Dog

What else can you show us? There must be some other stuff. Please ...

[Kwazydog]

Hi Vetacon! I dont have anything ready just at the moment but Ill try and get some stuff out in a week or so if all goes well, maybe a collection of Syrian small arms next...keep an eye out here or sign up to the news feed

[ July 15, 2006, 04:06 AM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[vetacon]

Oh well. Worth a try!

Eagerly awaiting any further disclosures ...

[kipanderson]

KwazyDog, hi,

I am stunned… they look truly amazing .

The 105mm tandem round is extremely effective and can do the business on near any AFV through the side armour. Could relate the devastating effect it has on M1 tanks in Iraq but will save that for another day .

I hugely look forward to CMSF as if you assume, realistically in my view, that the Syrians would have good quantities of Russian ‘90s anti-armour weapons the picture is entirely different from what you saw in Iraq. Commodity item, Russian ‘90s anti-armour weapons can penetrate the side armour of M1 tanks with ease. Now imagine relatively open terrain with clusters of buildings and orchards in small hamlets set in the otherwise open landscape. The potential for flanking shots on attacking US armour is near limitless.

All in all it will be fun… way more challenging than I suspect most imagine.

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[c3k]

Guys,

Has anyone else noticed that all the RPG's shown have the same exact wood-grain pattern? I'm very disappointed. I'd like a wood grog to examine the wood and let us know if the species used in the screenshots is a species used in the actual production of RPG's.

For now, I'll grant BF.C the benefit of the doubt on the actual wood species used. However, I would expect individual wood grain patterns for every weapon when the actual game is released.

In a similar vein, will all the soldiers represented in-game have the same fingerprints?

(Tongue firmly in cheek!)

Thanks,

Ken

[John Kettler]

KwazyDog,

While I grant you that the Bulgarian rounds shown are uncharacteristically shiny, yours have an even higher gloss. I think it might be worthwhile to take a look at some of the weapon cache images out there in color, where you can see a whole bunch of small arms and RPGs all laid out side by side on a tarp. The shots I've seen show decidedly dull finishes on the RPG rounds. Perhaps this is from all the grit and windblown dust?

Regards,

John Kettler

[hellfish]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

Nice. So ammunition will be seperated from the weapon?

Not too sure what you mean Hellfish. If you mean are they kept track of seperately then yes I beleive so, but grab Steve when he is around to be 100% sure or if your asking anything further with regards to game mechanics that which isnt related to the visuals .

If you mean visually then yes, unless time gets away on us we should actually be able to show the RPG gunner pull the warhead out of his back pack, attach the motor and load the complete unit into his launcher. When launched the motor will be spent and you should see the fins deploy.

As always though, remember that until things are finalised any details can change, even what items we find are available to the Syrians and what time permits us to model.

Dan </font>

[c3k]

On a more serious note than my previous comment, will RPG's be limited to a specific target set? More directly, will the ducted exhaust as modified and used in Somalia be simulated so as to enable RPG shots against high elevation targets without subjecting the firer to backblast?

Will RPG duds be simulated if they make a direct hit on an individual? Ugly, but has happened. What of an RPG gunner, fuse unprotected, getting hit such that the RPG round has its fuse contact the ground? BOOM. Bad for those around him. Again, a known weakness.

Regards,

Ken

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by kipanderson:

The 105mm tandem round is extremely effective and can do the business on near any AFV through the side armour. Could relate the devastating effect it has on M1 tanks in Iraq but will save that for another day .

Yes, and even the VL model should prove to be a concern. I beleive there is quite a well known case of a suspected VR taking out an M1 in Iraq through its skirt armor (at least, this is their current best guess I believe) that Im sure your aware of...for those interested check out the below.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=solved.htm

I hugely look forward to CMSF as if you assume, realistically in my view, that the Syrians would have good quantities of Russian ‘90s anti-armour weapons the picture is entirely different from what you saw in Iraq. Commodity item, Russian ‘90s anti-armour weapons can penetrate the side armour of M1 tanks with ease. Now imagine relatively open terrain with clusters of buildings and orchards in small hamlets set in the otherwise open landscape. The potential for flanking shots on attacking US armour is near limitless.

Yup, from what we have found it looks like the Syrians do have reasonable quantities of the items mentioned above, Kornets, RPG-29's etc. Ive also found one reference to them having the RKG antitank grenades (which isnt suprising) which have actually had some success in Iraq. For the US player Id say that initially they wont find too many of these items in use against them, but will come up against more and more as they progress...

All in all it will be fun… way more challenging than I suspect most imagine.

I think so...urban areas in particular should be very challanging and a huge amount of fun from what Ive seen this far!

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Originally posted by John Kettler:

The shots I've seen show decidedly dull finishes on the RPG rounds. Perhaps this is from all the grit and windblown dust?

Hi John! Yup, I do agree, in general from what Ive seen of them in the field they look much more matt. I supect that it is dust, grim and probably the lighting that make the two look different. Once they are in game Ill be sure to look into this.

[ July 15, 2006, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

Yup, I beleive so! Thats more a question for Steve to be 100% sure though.

[ July 15, 2006, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by c3k:

On a more serious note than my previous comment, will RPG's be limited to a specific target set? More directly, will the ducted exhaust as modified and used in Somalia be simulated so as to enable RPG shots against high elevation targets without subjecting the firer to backblast?

Will RPG duds be simulated if they make a direct hit on an individual? Ugly, but has happened. What of an RPG gunner, fuse unprotected, getting hit such that the RPG round has its fuse contact the ground? BOOM. Bad for those around him. Again, a known weakness.

Regards,

Ken

Heya C3K! To be honest this would be another question for Steve when he is about, Im not too sure of the in game mechanics myself at this point, Ive been too busy elsewhere.

Hehe, and Ill see what I can do about the wood grain I know you werent being serious but for those interested doing this allows us to save VRAM, which means more detailed textures as a result. The reason being is that one texture or bmp is being used on multiple models. The texture does contains all nexcessary detail for all 3 models (such as the iron sights vs the PGO-7 telescopic scope), but it also shares components where it is able too, such as the tube.

Dan

[Runyan99]

That's a screenshot? Wow. I'm highly impressed!

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

That's a screenshot? Wow. I'm highly impressed!

The above is a render out of our 3D software of the in game models and textures. Once we get a little further down the track we will be able to show you guys some screen shots

[flamingknives]

So we have a bunch of weapons with different warhead types, is the different balance between blast and fragmentation damage modelled?

Also, will we see differences in explosives inside and outside buildings (i.e. the difference between delay and superquick fuses)?

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

So we have a bunch of weapons with different warhead types, is the different balance between blast and fragmentation damage modelled?

Also, will we see differences in explosives inside and outside buildings (i.e. the difference between delay and superquick fuses)?

I believe that the various aspects of each shell are modelled. For instance he OG-7V is designed primarily as an AP frag shell whereas the OG-7M (not shown above) is used for the same purpose but was not as effective as it was primarily an HE round.

Im not aware of various fuses being available for the RPG rounds, as far as I know each round uses a specific fuse. Im not the best one to ask such questions of though...

Dan