Kuniworth Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Please please please please please introduce retreat rules from sc 2 1.0 not as a later patch, not as 1.9 patch or whatever. Retreat rules is the way to go - lets have it!!! [ March 06, 2006, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Play me punk, I'll teach you to retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 At the risk of being a seadonkey, Kuni, I don't agree. We have a playable game nearing its distribution date. Let's give HC a rest for awhile. We'll send him his justly deserved compensation, familiarize ourselves with its new features and prepare our recommendations for future patches. Or...this could go on forever. While I agree with the incorporation of the retreat feature, we may find through our playtesting that it may be insignificant,...who knows? Let's get this baby out and then we can attend to its evolution, but we need to evaluate it first. Logical????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 "We'll just see about that" --- Robert Duval, as the Apostle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Smith Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hey Sea-donkey, Kuni aint the one posting every hour some new A.I request or script suggestion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 There is a virtual retreat rule already in place. If your unit is destroyed, it can be bought back at a reduced cost, simulating troops that have fled and are replenished with new troops. It is not a "hands on" retreat rule where you have to do anything yourself, but that is why I like it, it keeps away from getting to micro managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 As usual, this is a top that was discussed at length two or three years ago in the original SC Forum. I'd like a retreat option as well, and also stacking (nothing monsterous, say two armies or three corps [giving some advantage to higher organization] but it's obvious at this point that Hubert isn't going that route. Hopefully he'll have new wargame projects and they'll include things like stacking and retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 all we are saying give retreat rules a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Originally posted by Blashy: There is a virtual retreat rule already in place. If your unit is destroyed, it can be bought back at a reduced cost, simulating troops that have fled and are replenished with new troops. It is not a "hands on" retreat rule where you have to do anything yourself, but that is why I like it, it keeps away from getting to micro managed. WHat do retreat rules got to do with micromanagement. Worked fine fully automatic in many games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I agree, any retreat should be automatic with the computer selecting the direction. Why? In a PBEM game I don't want to wait for my opponent to retreat his unit, after each combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Originally posted by Edwin P.: I agree, any retreat should be automatic with the computer selecting the direction. Why? In a PBEM game I don't want to wait for my opponent to retreat his unit, after each combat. amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 @Sir Jersey 'I'd like a retreat option as well, and also stacking (nothing monsterous, say two armies or three corps ...' in SC1 a hex is like 50 km or something, right? In SC2 is? I dunno but if it is 50 km ...well...kinda difficult to stuff 2 armies or more in a single tile just my 2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavrok Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Please please please Dont introduce retreat rules (at least not yet as an option) 1) Would not want this to affect game release 2) Strategic games- prefer the idea of cheaper replacements as a steer towards retreating principle 3) Retreat would need to be automatic.......what about the luck factor 4) Distaces- units being attacked within its say 50km (hex/ square) range....how do units on an army level find the time to be attacked on an onslaught and be damaged enough to force retreat...and then find time to retreat more than 50km.....the idea of cheap replacements show how the c&c nucleus remained intact and this then helped to quickly bring new formations into the field...Germans done this to great effect in France & Russia 44 5) What if you didnt want to retreat? 6) Micromanagement overall- like the idea of retreat on tactical level games...and perhaps include as an update option for SC2 if played at lower levels on some scenarios and finally the 2 most important reasons 7) Luck as to where units will retreat and options this opens up for attacker/ defender 8) Affect time to release (Give HC a rest) Feel deja vu with points 7 and 8 but worth stressing again for this strategic non micro-management classic (hopefully!) Thanks G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Too bad you think clash of steel sucks Gavorok. Well maybe it's you that suck? Nontheless you posted in the begging thread so your post will count as a vote for retreat rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hellraiser If an army for game definitions, would be 100,000 men and a corps 50,000, I think it can be easily done. More troops than that were packed into Stalingrad (about 300,000 Germans, elements of the German 4th Panzer Army with the 6th Army and parts of Italian and Rumanian formations pushed in from the flanks). I don't care if all the units stacked are allowed to attack the same target, or even defend together, maybe the strongest can defend with all retreating (only the fighting unit taking losses) and, in attacks, the stacked units would need to attack separately instead of as a combined factor. But the thing is, it would help eliminate the sort of thing you often see where units are carpeted back through the entire Low Countries and into Germany with only the front two or three able to engage in combat. Thermopolae on steroids! It would also help in amphibious ops as the bombarding ships and the invasion troops can be against the coastline at the same time. As it is now, the proceedure is totally unfeasable against occupied coastal hexes (SC-1) unless, of course, the invading side uses the old bugaboo of having a dozen or so air fleets and several carriers nearby. In which case, it's game over anyway. Gavrok, I agree with Kuni, not that you suck, but that Clash of Steel is a great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by JerseyJohn: [QB]As it is now, the proceedure is totally unfeasable against occupied coastal hexes (SC-1) unless, of course, the invading side uses the old bugaboo[QB]Ah yes, the old bugaboo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockylock Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 What Gavrok said. In particular point 4. Retreat should be done manually in your own turn, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by Mockylock: What Gavrok said. In particular point 4. Retreat should be done manually in your own turn, IMO. Aint that cute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockylock Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 You are right Kuniworth, that was very cute indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavrok Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Well cute Kuni Still bet that even though you got my vote by nefarious means SC2 will be released without retreat. Democracy is great ....but re SC2 the voters will number one and for valid reasons I'm sure HC will utter 'No Retreat' echoing a Charlie Chaplin impressionist in Winter 41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by Gavrok: Well cute Kuni Still bet that even though you got my vote by nefarious means SC2 will be released without retreat. Yeah and it's all your fault you falwty towers person! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Not to worry Gavrok, nothing has really delayed the release other than the proper implementation of the original design doc. Originally I had considered implementing a retreat rule, but it, like a few other items in my design doc, were cut just to get the game done and it has still taken a lot longer than I thought... so in retrospect it is a good thing that I really haven't considered too much forum feedback, albeit some (and this was mostly from the original SC1 forum), otherwise this game would never be finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 HC - A game designer who knows how to manage scope creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Treadway Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 My vote would be for a retreat rule as well, optional or not. I really liked the way Clash of Steel did it. I guess you could also add in the additional combat randomizers that were in CoS as well (Kampfgruppes, etc.) It was always a bit more entertaining and added some additional randomness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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