Diplo: "Spain is Lame" strategy, USA still a joke, Germans overated

[hellraiser]

Originally posted by Blashy:

2- Spain is fine, the only problem is that it can make diplomacy in the game obsolet, at least until hopefully one day diplomacy chits no longer cancel each other out.

Well this would just force Axis player to go for the minors...all of them, because once the big guys are in, they're gonna seduce every minor on the map

[Blashy]

Not really, you need to get a hit, which is not always likely.

And that's 250 to 375mpp depending on the type of country, that can seriously delay Allied advances.

And finally should it prove to be an issue, we would simply reduce diplomacy chances, influence or chits by country.

Oh and Axis pretty much already go after more than 75% of the minors .

[Pvt Hudson]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

[QB] Oh, the only way "USA won" was because of outnumbering the enemy? What do you think these freak-O Nazis did? They'd use their gang mentality to beat up little old Jewish ladies at night walking out of their shops. What were the numbers in Poland? Thousands of tanks against a few farmers with horses? Give me a break with the "German Masterace" commander crap. How good were the German commanders in the Atlantic? Stalingrad? N.Africa? D-Day? The Bulge? Patton went thru Africa & France like butter. Where was big bad Bunta Rommel then? Where was Mr. Manstein? Where was PickYourFavoriteBunta? Really tired of this "German worship". QUOTE]

Way to ignore the entire first 3 years of the war when we got our asses kicked. Wear blinders much?

[jon_j_rambo]

Somethings do take a little time, but in the end, the good guys win!

[Scook]

@FrankyBoy --- Boy, listen here. Of course Germany took less time to blast France, they planned it for years in advance & lived right beside them! Think, boy. Imagine the USA planning & building up for 10 years to surprise wax the bee-hinds of Mexico & Canada?

Actually, the plan to invade France was implemented in October 1939. V. Manstein made enough noise to garner a meeting with AH and impressed him so much they implemented that plan. Up to that point, the German Army was going to just repeat the Von Schliefen plan from WWI.

As far as being outnumbered, most of the time Germany went places with inferior numbers but superior and never seen before doctrine. Owe the concepts of Blitzkreig and air power to the likes of Guderian (his book on the subject is an interesting read). Once the Allies got a handle on the tactics the Germans started, and then refined them, it was all over except for the crying.

As for America, in November, 1944, we were outnumbered close to 2:1 on the Rhine River. Faulty intelligence didnt make that clear until 1945. We did have some very superior troops at this time in Europe, namely the airborne. Germany would never have taken Bastogn from the 101st, and the 82nd held back repeated assualts from 5 panzer divisions all by their lonesomes (and artillery and air support) and were counter attacking. Late 1944, we had probably the most elite soldiers on the planet in the form of the airborne and Marines.

As far as 1933 being the time Germany lost, keep going back. WW II is a natural extension from WW I. The Treaty of Versaille is probably the most important single piece of paper in the 20th century. It set in motion all the events between 1918 and 1939, making it possible for a man like Hitler to lead a country. The only person that had the foresite to see the problems was Woodrow Wilson. Essentially, we created our own monster.

[jon_j_rambo]

The Germans didn't invent anything new. There is nothing new under the Sun. Calvary tactics by Sheridan...and Sherman's march to Sea. The South also showed that defense in trenches is overated.

[Exel]

Okay, all the über-Americanism aside, now you've gone too far. You are honestly trying to argue that Blitzkrieg was an American invention?

[jon_j_rambo]

Sheridan & Sherman used lightning war, that's a fact.

[Rolend]

Rambo but to compare it to Blitzkrieg which included the use of air power is a far stretch even for you don't you think?

[Blashy]

Scook, Wilson was not the only one who knew the Treaty was WAY to harsh and was just going to cause more problems.

Quite a few Generals and one in particular (can't remember his name) stated something along the lines of "see you in 25 years to repeat all of this".

I think even Churchill was vocal about it being too punitive (am I right here?).

Greed once again.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Rolend:

Rambo but to compare it to Blitzkrieg which included the use of air power is a far stretch even for you don't you think?

Take Rambo and the specific examples out of it if you like. One could argue however that the principles of "Blitzkrieg" could depend on the technology of the time. Lightening War refering to quick advance, encirclement etc. would be a matter of reference. Therefore even an army on foot in the ancient world could perform a sort of Blitzkrieg for their time.

[Rolend]

However without tanks, air power and modern artillery their could be no Blitzkrieg. WWI showed that. Blitzkrieg was more then just lighting strikes, it was a tatic that used combined arms that not only made direct assults on front line troops but rear area infrastructure. It was an entirly new tatical approach to warfare using entirly new weapons of war.

[Major Spinello]

I wouldn´t be very surprised if it would be revealed soon that the Americans brought down the Roman Empire, too.

[Rolend]

Major LMAOOOOOO it is funny but being a proud American I can see where we get our bad rep.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Major Spinello:

I wouldn´t be very surprised if it would be revealed soon that the Americans brought down the Roman Empire, too.

Glad your coming around Major. Yes the spirit that would eventually become America was in the hearts of many throughout history.

[Hyazinth von Strachwitz]

As far as I`m concerned there were two occasions were Germany and the USA met under almost even circumstances in WW2... one was Kasserine Pass and the second one was Huerttgenwald. In both cases the Ultimate Warriors got their arses kicked.

Btw: I think Major Spinello´s Post deserves a Nomination for the best post in this forum

[Iron Ranger]

The mongols were the true inventor's of lighting war. Read thier invasion of India for the best example, though the attack on China was very good as well.

Before them the concept of 'fast' attack was SLOW! After them all warfare changed.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Iron Ranger:

The mongols were the true inventor's of lighting war. Read thier invasion of India for the best example, though the attack on China was very good as well.

Before them the concept of 'fast' attack was SLOW! After them all warfare changed.

Mounted Archers, my favorite pre gun powder combat unit.

[Lars]

Eh, I'd still take Swiss Pikemen.

[Iron Ranger]

without a dought the best Merc's ever, but I'm sorry the mounted archers would just drop them in squared piles.

[Lars]

Sorry, no. Their archers in the middle of the square would have piled up a lot of dead horsies.

[Honch]

Rambo:

We Canadians generally join with the Europeans in denouncing:

1. the Invasion of Iraq (In my opinion the invasion of Afghanistan was a good thing and there was just cause);

2. Rampant American aggression around the world;

3. Disregard for the opinions of other nations;

4. The rise of the religious conservatives in your country;

5. Ignorance of anything non-American;

6. George Bush and his good ol' boys club in general.

But, I think we all agree that the US has been the reason we have been able to continue these debates for the past 50 years.

[ June 08, 2006, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Honch ]

[Preusse]

Im all for Doppelsöldners. there is nothing like drunk men with two handed swords

[Guest Mike]

Swiss had sweet f-a archers, and not many crossbowmen and handgunners either.

But well before the Mongols there were Magyars, and before them the Huns, and before them the Skythians, and before them the horse-lords of eth mitanni on their Chariots.

the Vikings managed a sort of Naval blitzkrieg, while Roman armies marched further on a daily basis than the average rate of advance of hte Germans to Paris in 1940.

Aerial close support of ground forces never changed much from the rout of hte turks in Palestine, the Bulgarians at Salonika and attacks on the advancing columns of Germans in St Michael and St George.

German storm trooper tactics of avoiding strong points and advancing ddeep into the rear were copied from a French pamphlet captured in 1915, and have always been the province of guerilla wars.

"Cavalry tactics" of the American civil war were mostly to move fast then dismount and shoot - much like dragoons of the 30 years war 250 years earlier, and the deep cavalry raids are similar to the tactics of Caracticus in Briton against the Romans - he sent all his heavy infantry home and amassed 4000 chariots and his light infantry to conduct warfare from the sanctuary of woodlands.

[Retributar]

Honch! ... im with you on your comment's,...i just sold my house in 'Oregon City', Oregon and have moved back to Canada for some of the reason's you just stated!.

Im afraid that 'George Bush' may have some underhanded plan up his sleeve to stay in power after his Presidency legitimately comes to it's end!.

What he is doing right now reminds me of how 'Adolf Hitler' consolidated the situation and rose to the postion of 'Full Time Dictator'!.