FREE NAVAL SCOUTS/BLOCKADERS

[aesopo]

In line with my earlier comment about amphibs, the allies can easily use US transports to spot subs and hem in other ships. Or the Italians vice-versa especially in 1939.

One solution is to not allow US/USSR/Italy to amphib/transport before activitation.

Another solution is to script axis/allies neutrals to view the action as hostile and get them closer to ther alliance.

Another solution is just ot have Italy, USSR, USA, inactive before activitation.

Or another solution is to lessen (which I think is best), scripting any amphib/transport by major neutrals would lead them to lose influence points towards their alliance. As the US isolationist movement before war-entry would definitely gain strength by this action

[Blashy]

Or another solution is the one that we are using with the game as is that you have not thought about... probably because you have only played the demo :cool: .

You see I would be VERY happy if countries used transports as scouts if I was the opponent.

[Edwin P.]

One.

Landing Casualty Chance = 100 - (amphibious unit supply -1) * 10

Therefore, the longer a unit is at sea the greater its chance of suffering

landing casualties. If this trigger is met, the landing casualty penalty will be a

loss of from one strength point up to 50% of unit strength.

Two.

Soviet Naval Aggression in the Baltic (Sweden -> Axis) – An activation #2 event.

There will be a 50% chance for a one time 15-20% increase in Swedish activation

towards Axis if Soviet naval units approach Copenhagen port.

Three. Scouts cost MPPs.

[aesopo]

What about the US or Italy using transports as spotters?

[aesopo]

The topic Edwin is using neutral transports as spotters/blokaders. Not worth going into the Baltic as that is usually blocked in at the Copenhagen port.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by aesopo:

What about the US or Italy using transports as spotters?

Those would be the ones I had in mind.

[Edwin P.]

True, but properly placed neutral Russian transports should be able to keep German naval forces from entering or leaving the Baltic.

-----------------------------------------

Also, the longer a naval unit is at sea the lower its morale drops. This may make the transport more susceptable to damage when it is finallly attacked.

Also, if units are in transports, doesn't that mean that some cities cities may be left unguarded?

[Hubert Cater]

Aesopo, I think there will be a few tangible surprises that should become readily apparent with this type of strategy under the full game.

Like Blashy, I don't want to give everything away here but I can give you the quick example wrt the idea of the Italian navy possibly blockading Allied movements in the Med... eventually we came full circle and discovered that this is possibly the worst thing they can do early in the game. A few full games should reveal the reasons why but even now you might be able to guess the strategies and effective counter strategies that might just be in play under these circumstances.

[hellraiser]

I don't know about the Med, but spotting my raiding uboats in the middle of the north atlantic with trasports and having RN cruisers know exactly the locations, ain't good. I would pay the cost for loading a corps in a boat anytime if my chances to spot the raiders are greater.

[Blashy]

And you could pay the price for doing so, not in simple MPPs.

[hellraiser]

Dude, it's beggining to sound like:

-oh, i want to buy your car but something appears to be broken.

- No that's not an issue, she'll run fine.

- How comes that?

- Just buy it and you'll see.

Sorry, things don't work that way. You can't tell me 'it's not an issue' and convince me that indeed it isn't. Especially if I appear dumb enough to contiue to see it as an issue...

A lot of ppl base a purchasing decision on playing demos and listening to reviews and community forums, right?

So, no offence Mr. betatestosteron , but I think you could be a bit more specific here - I don't think that by explaining this issue, you ruin the thrill of discovering new things in SC2 as I am quite sure there are lot more things to learn and discover.

some time ago JJR posted a line from a classic flick: 'don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining' - you get my point?

[Retributar]

Hey!,..Look!..Yes!, most of us want to buy the game as well as many of us have pre-ordered it!.

AND YES!!!,...we realize that it is 'NOT-PERFECT'!!!,...that it still need's more work!,.were NOT BEING SNOWED UNDER BY FALSE ASSUMPTIONS....for most of us, ...there is NO MYSTERY AT ALL!...WE STILL want this game!.

[hellraiser]

Ohh... you forgot the caps on ... you're yelling at me or just want me to have an easier time reading your post?

The forum is all about posting opinions, right? I am a strong supporter of SC2, I want to play it, ofc, I respect the guy who worked on it, I respect the community. Is it that wrong to try to find answers to my concerns? After all I only try to make the most accurate image on how the game works, based on the demo and the facts presented on these boards. Because I will buy the game, provided it offers me certain aspects that I expect from a game of this genre.

Or you want me to post in capitals to be more clear?

[pzgndr]

After all I only try to make the most accurate image on how the game works, based on the demo and the facts presented on these boards.

The demo and forum comments do not present a 100% complete picture. Even the User Manual has an updates and errata file included with the final release version. And things are still changing!

The demo is good for showing how the game functions - user interface, game mechanics, etc. But like the SC1 demo before, it just doesn't show the long term strategies of the full game that players will have to deal with. Players will have to wait and see for themselves if their old gamey techniques still work for them or not.

It's just a game fellas. And it's not final. Hubert can and will make some adjustments along the way based on player feedback. Specific suggestions for improvements based on playing the full game against human opponents will be most helpful. And everyone will get that chance very shortly.

[hellraiser]

I agree. That's why I said 'try to make the most accurate..." I know I can't have the full picture but that doesn't mean I cannot ask questions about things that I consider questionable based on the facts I already know. It's only natural to be curious about things you like

[Desert Dave]

hellraiser, raising some:

Ohh... you forgot the caps on ... you're yelling at me or just want me to have an easier time reading your post?

It's a matter of... 2-D rhetorical

Aesthetics, or,

Rather, it CAN be.

Only so many methods of personal expression

Given the X-tremely circumscribed

Choices provided.

Try adorning a sacred page

With artistic daring - and flair,

As scholastic Monks used to do.

LOL, you see,

It's a matter of CONTRAST, as

One of the Western World's finest writers,

Ernest Hemingway, once

Used to great, and tremendous effect, and,

**INCIDENTALLY, with resounding success,

[... id est, for monies & pride or even glory,

Which, IMO, should NOT be ANY consideration

For a real writer]

Contrast helps separate substance from shadow.

And so, why is the use of CAPS,

No matter how profuse, or

Moderate, or sparing... ANY issue? :confused:

Is it that wrong to try to find answers to my concerns?

No.

By all means,

Keep on keeping on.

We require heroic

Kind of fire-defying Cat can raise

Actual Hell,

Else NOBODY would know what

To look forward to,

Once their last gasp has evaporated

Into... thin air.

All comes - TO you, in appropriate time,

No need to ever be grabbing!

For things.

You'll see things fresh & different

Then you've had opportunity

To kick back, and... reflect.

Then you've THOROUGHLY examined ALL

Aspects of the fully realized game. :cool:

[hellraiser]

Well, thanks for the reply ... you know, you could really use longer phrases instead of pressing enter after 4-5 words - it wouldn't make any difference lyric wise

[Hubert Cater]

Hellraiser,

We realize that what you think you have found means the game is broken, and while we are saying that we have tested all of these varying options, at the same time, essentially, myself and the Beta testers are just trying to not give away all the strategies and consequences just yet.

It is true, that in in the end the game allows you to do all sorts of things, and IMO this is a good thing as it allows for some very wide open strategies but this time around there truly are more checks and balances and ultimately more consequences than existed in SC1. I can give you a few hints such as what Edwin mentioned about having cities wide open as a result of using units to float around as U-Boat spotters, and this coupled with reduced MPPs as well as Production Delay... and if you start thinking long term here I think you'll discover that some of these strategies are not as good as you might think

[Desert Dave]

Well, thanks for the reply ... you know, you could really use longer phrases instead of pressing enter after 4-5 words - it wouldn't make any difference lyric wise

Yah,

Every one on my keys is legible,

Except the SHIFT... ^

And the ENTER... <--

You and I will have to have a TCP game

One day

(... though, time difference between

Desert City and Transylvania,

I don't know how that would go) anyway

You can flood the Atlantic

With transports from USA, presumably,

And then we'll see?

IF I can solve that sudden dilemma.

My only prayer is... I will see

A cherubic smile

More often than

An AWE-full "wrath." :mad:

LOL.

[Edwin P.]

I wonder, will I be able to write a few AI scripts that will take advantage of a human enemy that uses transports as spotters? When I receive the game I will certainly try my hand at it.

Already, I have seen what happens when Germany attacks Italy (for 1700+ MPPS!)instead of going after France. The UK AI does not move UK units in Egypt to Italian cities in North Africa (so they will remain UK controlled if Italy surrenders) nor does the Italian AI send its forces from North Africa to Italy to aid in defending Rome. Two items I will try my hand at fixing through the AI scripts.

Possible AI Scripts for: Germany DOW Italy and France is Not Surrendered and ITALY is not Surrendered.

a. Italy sends transports from North Africa to Italy with reinforcements

b. UK Units in Egypt move via transport to guard Italian cities in Algeria, and seize it if Italy surrenders.

c. Italy moves units to defend Rome

d. UK Navy in Med moves to Block off the Eastern Med from German Amphibious Invasion.

e. UK sends extra corps from UK to Egypt from UK.

I think that this is doable with the current scripting engine.

[ April 10, 2006, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Hubert Cater]

Yes this should be possible and as you mentioned before in another thread it unfortunately looks like I missed a few scripts for out of the box alternate strategies.

I'll also work to include these for the next patch.

[Hubert Cater]

Hellraiser,

I also want to reiterate what has also been mentioned in this thread that if there is indeed a found exploit that becomes fool proof I will definitely work to counter it as soon as possible.

Hubert

[Edwin P.]

Many thanks for the update HC. It will be interesting to see if Germany attacking Italy remains a viable strategy after you update the AI.

I just noted that all of the Italian Production and Research Scripts assume that Italy is Axis.

I assume that new production and research scripts would have to be written for the case in which Italy is Allied and Rome is threatened or not threatened. Else Italy would not produce any new units or conduct any research.

Futhermore, I assume that if Allied Italy is threatened by an attacking German player you want Italy producing and reinforcing units, not investing in research or diplomacy.

PS: In Demo as Allies I DOW'd USA and tried to take Boston and NY after sailing across the Atlantic. Did not work. The effect of a long voyage endered my invasion force totally ineffective. Will try again staging from Canada and sending forth 3 carrier units; hopefully before the Demo ends. My objective: See if UK and France can conquer USA before France surrenders. I know its a crazy and totally unrealistic strategy, but I just want to see if its possible for the UK & France to conquer the USA. If the USA has only an allied production strategy (i.e. it does not produce units if Axis aligned) it might be possible to do this and gain a ton of MPPs.)

[ April 10, 2006, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Echo]

Transports should not block any movement by a combat naval unit.

(combat naval units should be able to move through, but not land on transports at sea).

[hellraiser]

Originally posted by Hubert Cater:

Hellraiser,

I also want to reiterate what has also been mentioned in this thread that if there is indeed a found exploit that becomes fool proof I will definitely work to counter it as soon as possible.

Hubert

That's good, thanks Mr. HC. I guess all the community appreciates this attitude.