Naval units repair & build cost

[SMG42]

I find that naval units repair cost, tied to the initial cost is far too high to be realistic (I know Blashy will say everything is perfectly balanced ).

I can understand why repair 1 pt in a CV cost so much ,as they have the lethality of a fighter air force. But for a badly mauled light surface (the one who hunts subs), having to pay what you get during 2 turns as UK is simply overboard.

Thats being said, naval units have also a far too high cost. From a historical point of view (the Graf Zeppelin, even if considered with various minors ships as assets costing the price of 2 panzer korps? Come on!), and from a gameplay perspective: Take for example the price of a brand new U-Boot. 200 MPP if I'm not mistaken. How much players will play the Battle for the Atlantic in this game considering this huge cost & the numerous (even if pricey) DD the Allies has from the start?

Frankly, I don't think many. Add to that few if any will also build new ships or subs, and you get a convergence of hints that can lead you to think that something is not properly modelled here.

Unless you tell me that Germany never build a new U-Boat (too pricey), repaired none (too pricey), or the Allies never build a new light ship (too pricey), or even repaired their damaged units. Even Germany repaired continuously their BB units when damaged (see the Tirpitz in Norvay). For me, ship repair should be slow and free, and not fast and costly. Something like 1 point repaired each turn or every other turn for BB/CV would be a far better rule.

So my position:

a) cost of all ships/subs divided by 2 or even 3 (and don't tell me players will by tons of new CV, it asks for a 18 months gestation time!)

repair is free, at the rate of 1 pt each turn, except for CV&BB, where its 1 point every 3 turn free, and the possibility to pay as the regular rule to increase by 1 pt/turn if you want to spend the bucks.

finished my rant

[Blashy]

You bring good points, the battle of the Atlantic I do find is lacking. I think we all did and we improved on it but mainly it still comes down to ONE battle and then it is pretty much over for the rest of the game.

I would say not much was said in the end as other issues were more pressing for the game release and alot of the issues could be changed in the editor (price of units).

Also, keep in mind the lower the cost of a unit, the lower the cost to repair it.

[LampCord]

In 3 games vs. AI so far, I've yet to even consider buying a naval unit due to the cost.

I think we need to not only reduce the cost of naval units accross the board but also reduce the cost of subs even more.

It seems too expensive to invest in subs for Germany. Those 200 pts could be spent on tech research or another always badly needed army or even 2 corps.

[Lars]

Heh, try it.

If you can safeguard the first three till after France goes down, and build another one or two to go with, you got UK by the short hairs.

[Honch]

I adjusted the naval costs for UK and USA downwards slightly on everything and Germany on subs. Italy and USSR went up on costs of CVs. Much better.

[Fartknock3r]

WOAH SMG, that's a really good suggestion!

[Dulak]

I totally agree; naval costs should be lower at least by 1/3 if not by 50%. Funny how this is one of the things that stuck with me from SC1 ie dont buy nothing and dont repair much.

I really hope HC includes a cost reduction in the patch; will make using naval vessels much more fun.

[dennisb55]

I also think something needs adjusting. In my 1st game as the Axis, I virturally took Italy out of the war trying to keep the navy up to strength - just jacking around. It's too easy to lose naval points and too costly to replace them. I like the idea of a time cost as well as lower mpp costs.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

I'm still mulling some options along these lines. I

do agree that ships shouldn't be instantly repaired,

but there should still be a cost involved (I'd

suggest a max 2 points per turn in repairs).

[SeaMonkey]

I've been trying to research the cost basis in WW2 values for naval task forces vs SC land formations without luck.

Continuing.........

I believe this is a good platform to examine the need for adjustment, initially.

We can debate it from there.........anyone else with info or comments?

[Lars]

Well, you could say that CV's are relatively cheap. You get an air fleet for only an extra 50 MPP over BB.

Having ships "heal" in port is an interesting idea, but I'd only like to see it go up to 5 max, or port strength perhaps.

Keep in mind it will unbalance the game in favor of Allies, as they have the larger Navy, and will take a great burden off of the UK.

[TaoJah]

If repairs take more then one turn, you'll need more ports or the option to repair more then one ship per port IMHO.

The UK starts off with more ships then ports, if it takes 2 turn to repair, the rest of their fleet is gone by the time the damaged ones are repaired.

[Lars]

Sorry, repair slowly and halfway for free, or all at once for MPP as is. Should have been more clear there.