Codename Condor Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hey, we all know taking Paris was a piece of cake in WWII but this is game and a possible axis stop in Paris should be possible. With this bonus readiness thingy taking France is a joke...I want a possiblity to stop a bad axis commander in France. Gee, with this new rule even Kuni could take Paris... At least, a toggle on/off option is needed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Originally posted by Codename Condor: Gee, with this new rule even Kuni could take Paris... Actually I have never been to Paris. Will be nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 There is no possible stop, France had no chance to survive the Axis onslought, no chance AT ALL. They were WAY too unprepared, what could be done in SC was unrealisitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC27 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 The only reason SC doesnt start with France already captured is to give the allied player chance to hold out a little longer than historically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Actually in SC2 it also gives you the chance to prepare the neutral majors for both sides. As well, not everyone will go after the same minors, some might go for Norway, some not, some might go for Sweden or whatever. You can also delay the fall of France with a heavy UK involvement, which could be a tactic for some games. But France can NOT be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulak Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 That's the way I hope this game is made; where the historical accuracies are there but there are also choices on what you will do with those strengths/weaknesses. In SC1 many times I took spain or I went though turkey to russia (granted this was against the computer); but I really like being able to decide when and where I am going to attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JameyCribbs Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 There is no possible stop, France had no chance to survive the Axis onslought, no chance AT ALL. That's just a silly statement. No chance at all? Come on. Even if the "Axis onslought" were as powerful as you are implying, nothing in warfare is an absolute, forgone conclusion. So, you are saying that even if France had different leadership, deployed their forces differently, had a stronger, more determined committment from the UK, didn't overextend themselves, husbanded their reserves, and then committed them in a coordinated, forceful counterattack...you're saying they still had no chance of stopping Germany from conquering their country in the summer of 1940? I think you are very wrong. Moreover, I think your implication that there shouldn't be any way that France can hold out in the game, is wrong. Probably the main reason I loved SC1 was the ability to try different strategies than the actual historical ones, to see if I could produce results that were different from history. Can I lead France to hold back the Third Reich from overruning my country? As the Americans, can I gain and keep a foothold in Europe in 1943? As the British, what if I tried attacking Hitler through the Balkans? That's what is so great about SC. Hearing one of the beta testers say, "Don't even waste your time on France, because there's *no* way she can be saved", doesn't bode well for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I want a possiblity to stop a bad axis commander in France. A "bad" Axis commander could be stopped, or at least hurt very badly. That's the risk if you choose to underwhelm the French campaign in lieu of other adventures. A "competent" Axis commander, on the other hand, should not have a problem. It's not a metter of if, but when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 It is not wrong, it is history. If France had done everything right, the best it could had done is hold of Germany until the fall of 1940 and that means Germany doing bad moves on their side. But stopping them outright, not a chance. You would need a terrible Axis player to be able to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 JameyCribbs, I think you raise good points and in the end I think you'll find that SC2 is just as flexible (if not more) than SC1 when it comes to the types of alternate yet *historical* strategies you are after. For example, the 1940 Demo Campaign starts with the ideal and optimal setting for the Invasion of Norway and the Fall of France, whereas if both players were to start in the 1939 campaign there would naturally be the possibility of quite a different setup (depending on the movement of forces, the results of previous battles etc.) by the time the spring of 1940 comes around. Essentially, while France may still (and likely) fall it might not be such a quick rollover as it is found in the Demo campaign. That's what is so great about SC. Hearing one of the beta testers say, "Don't even waste your time on France, because there's *no* way she can be saved", doesn't bode well for the game.Don't forget, while Blashy enjoys stating his opinions, they do not in any way (or ever) *officially* speak for the final product... and if by chance you are looking for the final word... look no further Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Yeah, I'm just a beta tester. There is only one God in SC2 and he has final say on anything. I'm just stating my opinion based on my knowledge of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Well if I am the God of SC2 I guess that would make you the God of *extreme* beta testing SC2 newbies beware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 That's a cheap shot HC. Except for the betas and yourself, we are all SC2 n :eek: :eek: bees. So are you trying to put the fear of God into us as the Blashy sacrificial lambs? Where's Terif when we need him? Well,..I'm taking this as a personal vendetta to blow Mr. Bad@ss Blashy off the face of the SC2 map. I maybe a sacrificial lamb, but I'm not going to the slaughterhouse willingly. Have you ever been bit by a lamb? Have you ever had to put up with their incessant Bahhhhhhing!!! Have you ever stepped in their .......... Well... its not going to be pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Historically, France could have been defended better. It's been proved already by historians. If they had delayed the axis untill fall of 40, momma Russia prolly would have had sealed axis' fate from the east. But as far as SC2 is concerned, I am happy that France behaves more or less 'historically' - it allows the players to experience the war all over Europe with the 2 majors to enter later in the war. No more 'quick gambits' eh? -> our friend Avatar will cry us a river Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Hey dont point with your finger on avatar!! ...avatar is now a long game player since he played me a couple of times in the past time. ....and believe me or not he loves long games now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 I repeat: taking France ---> a walk in the park. That readiness bonus helps germany a lot, and hurts allies a lot. With this new % penalties when "DoWing" minors, allies cant DOW like in SC1, gee, see what happens even if u DOW Ireland... so it helps Germany a lot. U reduce plunder but u implement this new rule..., well im gonna be DOWing minors all the time and playing with diplomacy to counter effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 I repeat: taking France ---> a walk in the park. That readiness bonus helps germany a lot, and hurts allies a lot. With this new % penalties when "DoWing" minors, allies cant DOW like in SC1, gee, see what happens even if u DOW Ireland... so it helps Germany a lot. A couple of comments. One, this readiness bonus helps a lot in this historical scenario because Germany can simultaneously conquer Denmark, Norway and Benelux and cause 20-60% morale losses for the Allies. In a 1939 campaign game, you have a choice to wait and achieve this historical bonus or knock off some of the minors early. Pros and cons. Between this incentive and bad winter weather, we're hoping more players are inclined to wait. There's now a choice to think about. The other thing is this bonus happens when minors surrender, not upon DOW. As some have noticed with the new plunder formulas, there's a tradeoff between quick victories with more plunder or slow victories with more unit experience. Delayed surrenders also mean delayed morale bonus. Players need to better consider the timing of their campaigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 What was the logic behind giving a readiness bonus for conquering a country anyway? I mean, I can see the morale loss for the opposing side, but if anything, you'd have a readiness decrease due to wear and tear on the units involved. And that unit way on the other side of the map, why does it get a bonus? It wasn't even involved. After all, in the other thread a couple of days ago, you were telling me how bad it was to go on a choo-choo ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Originally posted by SeaMonkey: That's a cheap shot HC. Except for the betas and yourself, we are all SC2 n :eek: :eek: bees. So are you trying to put the fear of God into us as the Blashy sacrificial lambs? Where's Terif when we need him? Well,..I'm taking this as a personal vendetta to blow Mr. Bad@ss Blashy off the face of the SC2 map. I maybe a sacrificial lamb, but I'm not going to the slaughterhouse willingly. Have you ever been bit by a lamb? Have you ever had to put up with their incessant Bahhhhhhing!!! Have you ever stepped in their .......... Well... its not going to be pretty. I think he meant more in terms of doing some of the craziest off the wall no sense at all tactics to try and break Hubert's beautifull game. I'm sure after a month of playing you'll all be able to win some vs any of the testers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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