Diplomacy Popup Info

[Ottosmops]

Is there a popup info when the opponent had a diplomatic success?

I can't remember to have seen one in my last game as Axis, but I noticed in the diplomacy screen, that Norway had shifted towards the Allies.

If there is no such info, wouldn't it be nice to have one?

I mean, there is no secret information given away, as the player can always check the numbers in the diplomacy screen.

But to have to do so would be an tedious task.

[Hubert Cater]

It will not show up for an opponent under FoW but I think you are right that it probably should since you can simply check the numbers on your turn.

[Night]

Yea I was under the impression that it would do so, oh well

[Blashy]

Actually it is a good idea to NOT have a pop up telling you the other side had a success.

It makes you keep an eye and track diplomacy.

A pop up telling you the enemy had success is just too easy to monitor.

Opening diplomacy on your turn is like asking your spies to report, if you forget to ask, no report.

[Lars]

Too tedious Blashy. After US and USSR DOW there's no reason to check the diplo screen, so a popup would be nice.

Or you could just sit around and wonder where the heck your Norwegian ore shipments went, like I did.

[Blashy]

It keeps the game interesting and could have a turning point. And simply clicking on that one button at the start of your turn is not something I consider tedious.

I would not want to play anyone where I can no longer surprise him with diplomacy and he can just wait for a pop up to tell him something occured somewhere.

And when USA and USSR join, there is still LOTS of room for diplomacy, Spain, Turkey, Vichy and Sweden could all be prime targets for the Axis diplomacy.

Just waiting for the computer to tell you something is going on is just too easy and takes away the whole concept of diplomacy.

This would have totally screwed me in one game, where I got two hits in USSR diplomacy before my opponent noticed and had to stop his diplomacy on Spain to counter act mine.

[Lars]

Well, in order for me to notice the diplomacy results, I first have to commit all the percentages to memory for all the nations listed. Then see if they change. Then rememorize. Every turn. Let's see, was Spain at 64 or 72% last turn...? That's tedious. Should, at the very least, be marked on the diplo screen that something happened.

Besides, I get other info in popups that I ordinarily would have no way whatsoever to know, like reinforcements landing in Egypt or the exact amount of mpp lost due to a sub attack, so why not diplo results? Heck, my Ambassador better be doing something besides going to cocktail parties, so have him draw it to my attention.

And btw, you're not surprising anybody, you just happened to have a lazy opponent. Like me.

[Blashy]

It is very easy to keep track, once you've played a few games you know all the starting numbers for each country, so if one moves, you pick it up and then you only have to keep track of one, maybe two.

Wait until you've played a few games, you'll find it easy, but if it would happen in a game you get a hit and your opponent fails to look for a turn or two, it could be surprising.

[Sombra]

A question regarding diplomacy:

For example Germany / Italy and GB each invest 5 diplomacy chits on Spain. What haappens:

a. GB chits cancel out all the efforts of Germany and Italy

b. GB chits cancel out randomly 5 diplomacy chits from Germany or Italy (Still a chance between 15-25% to influence Spain then)

c. Something els.

I guess a is the correct answer ?

[Jollyguy]

I toss my hat in the no pop-up option. SC 2 has simple enough gameplay, its not hard to check the diplomacy screen, and note that Spain starts at 40%, etc. Diplomacy is cloak-and-dagger, and alerting your opponent of success dilutes the investments. It would be akin to a pop-up saying, "XXX unit is unmoved, are you sure you want to end your turn," or "XXX city is ungarrisoned, end turn?" The player has some responsibility to check indicators.

Now, perhaps there could be an option in the game setup, "Diplomatic Alerts" or something like that, but on balance, IMO there should be no automatic pop-up.

Bob

[Yohan]

Having to look each turn is a complete waste of the computer as a resource. Perhaps you should have to calculate the attack odds yourself and input them?

I look at the popup as a report from your spy master keeping you updated with pertinent information, not mind numbing review of a screen turn after turn.

[Lars]

Originally posted by Blashy:

It is very easy to keep track, once you've played a few games you know all the starting numbers for each country, so if one moves, you pick it up and then you only have to keep track of one, maybe two.

Wait until you've played a few games, you'll find it easy, but if it would happen in a game you get a hit and your opponent fails to look for a turn or two, it could be surprising.

Perhaps, but it's so much nicer if the computer does it for me. And better game design too.

Maybe just making a changed number blink on the diplo screen until looked at would be a quick and easy fix?

[Desert Dave]

Jollyguy:

I toss my hat in the no pop-up option. SC 2 has simple enough gameplay, its not hard to check the diplomacy screen, and note that Spain starts at 40%, etc. Diplomacy is cloak-and-dagger, and alerting your opponent of success dilutes the investments. It would be akin to a pop-up saying, "XXX unit is unmoved, are you sure you want to end your turn," or "XXX city is ungarrisoned, end turn?" The player has some responsibility to check indicators.

Now, perhaps there could be an option in the game setup, "Diplomatic Alerts" or something like that, but on balance, IMO there should be no automatic pop-up.

Couldn't agree more,

In goes my (... forward-worn) ball-cap.

Cloak & dagger.

Spy VS Spy.

I think in my last TCP game

I spent all of... maybe

90 seconds checking on Diplomatic actions.

It's just not that onerous to keep track.

[Lars]

Just not that onerous doesn't cut it. I shouldn't be forced to when there's a quick and easy fix.

What are we going to do when the mods come out and there's 25 chits in play? Write the original numbers down on a piece of paper and hold them up next to the screen?

[Blashy]

The things is Lars, I do not see it as a quick and easy fix, I see it as breaking diplomacy and its function.

As Dave puts it Spy VS Spy.

Don't be lazy, click that button

You won't need a piece of paper, believe me, it gets VERY easy to track.

[Lars]

Look, Blashy, I already pointed out to you that you're not fooling anyone, you're just relying on a lazy opponent and poor screen design to play your diplo games.

If your opponent checks the screen every turn, notes down the changes somewhere, your whole point is moot.

[Todd Treadway]

Why even have pop-ups at all then? I'd suggest that we disable them altogether so that we have to guess as to what is happening in the game, especially in PBEM. And make sure to get rid of the pop-ups for our destroyed combat units and technology advances as well. Oh, and when the USSR and USA enter the war also. Take those pop-ups out. After all, I do enjoy spending my time (even 90 seconds) looking at the diplomacy screen every turn--and I would love to spend even more looking through all the screens and guessing if units are being destroyed or subs are disrupting convoys.

Umm, isn't this supposed to be a game of making high-level decisions? I think I might have a subordinate telling me about these things (i.e., a pop-up window). If there is any in-between, maybe give us the options to turn on/off these windows such as in Hearts of Iron.

[Blashy]

"IF" being the magic word .

You were lazy in your game, hehehe.

It could be an option on/off. But it might eliminate some people from playing together and could cause some leagues to have less active players if it was a rule to be ON or OFF. Who knows.

[Lars]

Blashy, you're forcing people to do work they don't want to do. That's not what customers look for in a game.

I've given two solutions.

1 - A popup, just like for player successful diplo actions.

2 - Make the numbers blink on the diplo (and war map) till checked.

Of the two, I'm becoming more wedded to the second one. Less intrusive, more elegant, and would be easy to do.

[Blashy]

I'm not forcing anyone, I'm just a player expressing my preference.

Hubert is GOD almighty here.

[Desert Dave]

Well,

In the interest of having an open discussion,

So that ALL points of view

Might be considered

IF you do NOT have the element of "surprise!"

What worth?

Do you really suppose that EVERY single

Diplomatic "deal" made behind closed doors

Would be completely, and! immediately KNOWN

To every other Nation on Earth?

Practically speaking:

IF you "automatically" realize that the Opponent is "secretly enticing" some neutral Nation, as with proposed "pop-up," THEN... presto!

You may, or may not... quickly "counter" your opponent's effort, true?

What worth, I say again, unless there is some element of surprise?

Every game would finally result in being very nearly the SAME, wouldn't it?

Who would even use it, if they knew that - no matter what they would try to do, the other side would ALWAYS be aware of it?

Sure, it would also depend on "chance" since there is built-in variance,

But, IMHO, it is better when you can conduct your Diplomacy in secret, as it was in actual war-times?

Wasn't it?

Was GErman Intel - ALWAYS aware of what EXACT pressure, and/or enticement Britian was applying to Sweden, or Spain, for instance?

I seriously doubt that.

Perhaps more a case of... rumor.

Or, speculation.

Or, wishful thinking even.

Thus, as is, you have to watch - only OCCASIONALLY.

When I said 90 seconds, that was for the WHOLE game and not EACH turn, BTW.

I guess I just don't get it. :confused:

Why the Spy VS Spy Diplo-Game cannot be an integral, and very dynamic part of the over-all Strategy? :confused:

[Lars]

Again, where's the surprise?

If I check the numbers every turn, there is NO SURPRISE.

You're arguing for something that's not even there.

[Desert Dave]

Again, where's the surprise?

If I check the numbers every turn, there is NO SURPRISE.

You're arguing for something that's not even there.

Lars,

I respect that fact that you, and

Many others would prefer

Something akin to what you've proposed.

That's cool. :cool:

To specifically answer your question:

I would guess

That MOST players will NOT check every turn,

But,

Casually, occasionally.

Then!

They might be astonished to learn :eek:

That, for one instance, Spain is now 5% ALLIED!

All of a sudden it was!

That VERY rare "big bounce" that would only occur so infrequently, that MOST players just won't worry over it.

Many pressing concerns all over the map!

Well,

At least we can agree that dis-agreeing

Can be... agreeable?

[Lars]

Look, I understand what you're saying, but if you want diplo to work in the game like you seem to think it should, i.e. being a surprise, then the percentages on the screen shouldn't update AT ALL due to opponent's successful actions. Let the player be lulled into a false sense of security until sudden activation.

That would come as a shock.

But as it is, you're just forcing me to play dip & twiddle with the buttons. And that's poor design.

[rleete]

Oh, come on, Lars. Everyone knows Dip & Twiddle was never released. It's just vaporware.

BTW, I agree with you, even though I'm the type to check everything almost every turn.