CraigRS Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I have been a lurker on this board for over a year and have been waiting for SC2 as long as anyone else but I have to say I'm not impressed at all. I play SC just about everyday (Don't tell my boss) and can't seem to get enough of it. Maybe that's why I felt the way I did when I saw the screen shots but it looks like a different game with the same basic premis rather than a sequel. The graphics look like something to draw the kids in when the core audience is much more sophisticated (So I think, lol). I like some of the options such as diplomacy but I just can't get over the loss of stuff like a hex based enviroment or a top down prospective. Why do I need to see a Russian soldier holding a flag or a city skyline? Is that supposed to draw me in? If it is maybe I'm just missing something. I guess I just wanted SC1 with a map of the enitire world and some of the additions to game play but it is going to be hard for me to adjust to the graphics. I think somethimes with a game like this they try to broaden the apeal to a wider range of gamers but they also seem to sometimes forget who got them as far as they are. I just hope it plays better than it looks but I'm going to have to pass until I can play a demo. This isn't meant as a flame to anyone just voicing my sadness on what should have been a great night. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 it looks great to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I think you are right about the graphics meant to draw more people, but I don't think anything is wrong with that if the substance is still there. If anything I think the game sounds deeper than the first. I will miss the old one's looks, but that's prob why I'll leave it installed for a while. Hopefully we will get a world wide SC. Or at least a few good Pacific maps out of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 CraigRS --- Very interesting comments. Playability is King......but if Hubert has upgraded the graphics AND the playability, then we're in for a fun ride. We shall see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 You know, pretty much all of the features mentioned on that website are things the SC community has suggested at one point or another since we started discussing the possibility of SCII over a year ago. I think Hubert has done a fantastic job at taking our thoughts into consideration and he has made that clear from day 1. In fact, I'll go as far as saying I think SCII is being created around what the fanbase wants. There are very few places (if any) where you see that. Comrade Trapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman uk Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I find it hard to think what other features can be added... It Seeems Hubert and co have done everything asked and more... I for one will be keen to see the map of the world or other theatre (zoom up or down perspective) making the best of 252x252 has to offer. Admittedly, I like grand strategic best. I await Sc2 with great anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Disappointing? No way. Think of it like this... The girl you dated all through High School went away to college and you missed her but went on with your life and then, Years later... she came back! :cool: A little older. Bigger here and there. Wiser in all the very best ways. In ways that you used to dream about but Never thought... could happen. No more pony-tail or misty-pink lipstick. NOW! She is like a Tiger on the prowl! :eek: And, Asking around, At all the neighbors' houses, and Politely, but very determined... Just for... you! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSEDS Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 In the first look it reminded me on the (very) old Panzer General 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by DSEDS: In the first look it reminded me on the (very) old Panzer General 2. Your right, it does. That was a great game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Well, might wanna try it before you pan it. Give Hubert some time. And of course, one can't please everybody, no matter what one does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by CraigRS: Why do I need to see a Russian soldier holding a flag or a city skyline? While it may not make up for the switch from top down to perspective , a toggable option also exists to play with military style unit icons: Military Unit Icons Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kossuth Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I agree with CraigRS. I do not like the layout either. I WOULD prefer an option for 1D, but of course that will maybe too much programming. Reading furhter in the forum that will not happen. So far Craig and i are in miniority. The layout worked for PG2, but will it do for SC2 that will have a lot more depth to it ? I will buy the game without hesitation, but i think i really will have to work with my resistance and CIV/PG feeling. I would like to have the "NATO"-symbols as a flagg/counter, not as Cubes. But i think i am too boardgame conservative here. [ April 14, 2004, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: kossuth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly's Heroes Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Personally, I like everything about the new look for SC2. This is one wargame that will be fully customizable. I am sure there will be someone who will produce icons for the board game folks. I think there will be something here for everyone. Even non-wargamers will want to play this game. My hat is off to Hubert for taking this bold step. New ideas are needed to be injected into the wargame genre to get more people interested. This should have wide appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 CraigRS, visuals aside (indeed, it's an attempt to attract an even wider audience; but the visuals were designed with functionality first in mind), you *can* have a worldwide map in SC2. The map that comes with the European campaigns will only use a portion of the entire possible game map. I am sure that "World War" campaigns will come out days after release Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 CraigRS Your first post and you're sad? Cheer up, the thing still needs play tested and will probably be a lot different by the time it gets released. If you're sad now it's fortunate you didn't see SC v1.01! * *No offense, Hubert, I mean, it was a masterpiece even back then, but the six or so upgrades helped a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I'm going to trust Hubert, Moon, & MadMatt on this one. SC is awesome, never thought I'd be playing it today. I'm sure SC2 will be great too. Battlefront guys, make sure you get plenty of sleep, don't stress out while making SC2. Have fun doing it. Also, make yourself some money, sell it for at least $35. (Is $40-50 range realistic without hurting sales?) You should get repeat business already, while getting new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Sir Jersey, you're right, those patches really changed the game. Heck, I didn't get serious about SC until TCP/IP patch was available. Alot it different strokes for different folks, I didn't realize how many people care about the A.I.? I could careless about it. Human opponents is where the action is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRas Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 As anonther lurker on this board for a long time I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with CraigRS on this one. The graphics are nice to be sure but the primary objective of the graphics in any boardgame is to present RELEVANT information as simple as possible. I don't need to see the Eiffel Tower - I know it's in Paris. I need to know it's a major city. I don't need to see icons for each country's tanks. I just need to know the type. One problem with isometric boards is that it often can be hard to evaluate the precise distance in hexes/movement points to this or that. Or the terrain of the hex for that matter. SC1 was - with its flaws - a model for simplicity and clean graphics with focus on the game itself. A true boardgaming classic. It seems to me that SCII makes the same mistake that a lot of other strategy games have done: Making the graphics work AGAINST the game by presenting a lot of unnecessary information. I know it's still early and the game can - and probably will - see many changes. And that it can only be fairly evaluated when the demo is out. I'm just a little disappointed: I had hoped that Battlefront would stay true to the classic boardgamer values and would have used all their ressources on the game machine itself - not on fancy graphics. Please make a 2D option with NATO symbols and simple map graphics. Please. Everything else about SCII looks magnificent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Looks like this is becoming the "Hot Topic". In another thread the "Square" map method (versus "Hex" map) shows a 3-prong front against a ground unit which is "in a line", does that screw up the combat a little? Will it be harder to hold a line? Or will a line not matter since the attacker can pick units off one at a time like Gary Cooper in Sgt. York? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I would like the option of having the 2d "counters" as well-although I think the visual extras are great. One oft requested additions-stacking units-seems not to have made it in. This (and maybe the dropping of the hex grid-but I'll hold judgement on that 'till I've tried it) is really my only wish that seems to have not made it. Looks good from here for the most part, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 It looks like the "old hex" gaming wargamers are coming out! My vote is beginning to go that way. Somebody needs to make a boatload of the old classics on computer! Squad Leader, Civil War, Conquistador, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 RobRas - the resources used for making graphics are either used, or not used, but they cannot be used for something else. Fernando cannot help Hubert code the game Let me repeat - the visuals do not come at a price of gameplay. Hubert has been very careful about this. Functionality is first. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 General Rambo Same here, but in a different area, the addition of the Cape Horn arrows early (along with Suez), Hubert's correcting of those super carriers in port! He's really responded to all the remarks we've given him during the past year and a half or so and prior to that when neither of us were in yet. I have to agree that as a life-long hex man going back forty-five or so years of wargaming I do have a tendancy toward hexes over squares, but I'll trust Hubert's judgement on this. He makes a good point that in non-stacking situations it helps bring attacking force to hit a strong defensive area. Craig-Rob Martin is right, you're concentating on a cosmetic feature and saying little about the revised game as a whole. Sure, I've got my preferences for how it should look, but again I'm trusting Hubert's judgement, at least till I have the game running on my own computer ... ... and then I'll ask him why the hell he left Guatamala out of the damn thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRas Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Moon - I know. But still development hours/money are used making the game more expensive - or your profits lower Furthermore it will - probably - require more computer ressources to run perhaps making the game slower or creating graphic card problems. I know this is speculation and I don't want to be negative. But I really love SC partly because of it's clean and informative no-fuss graphics. But I know graphics is king and beautiful screenshots are great marketing tools. I'm just an old and oldfashioned wargamer believing that fancy graphics are fine for arcade and shooter games. But in true strategy games they have the tendency to obscure information. If I want to know what an ME262 looks like I'll check the web or a book. My jetfighter counter just needs to inform me of the type and/or stats. But I'll just close my eyes and cross my fingers in the hope that you will include a 2D map and simple counters as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kossuth Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by RobRas: But I'll just close my eyes and cross my fingers in the hope that you will include a 2D map and simple counters as an option. HALLELULJA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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