Liam Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Noone buys them and the only one who uses them is the USSR? (Because the Engineer is free) I am awaiting one person to tell me they've used Engineers (I purpose all major powers recieve an Engineer free a certian deadline, especially USA who was Notorious for their superb Army Engineers, far superior to anything Europe was fielding.. Germans forfitified Normandy and N.Africa to hell, how? They deserve one...at a later date... Russians employed their citizens to dig holes, trenches, they definitely have one, France doesn't matter she falls too soon... as for Italy, I do not recall 1 case of an Italian fort being erected in WW2, The British, fortified England, with lots of pillboxes for an inevitable invasion from Germany, they should recieve one early but perhaps have it grounded to home territory so it's no an exploit till after Sea Lion) P.S. if not employing this unit, sort of like Rockets are not employed enough, perhaps we should cheapen it, turn it into a Garrison unit and remove it's special abilities??? Otherwise Russians will be the only Fort creators of this game that I can see in the immediate future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I have used them in two games (non USSR ones). One when I didnt know thier real use, no effect. The other had some effect, could have been huge but was still learning the game. In the end they dont come into real play because people are not willing to 'push' the game to the end. Eather the allies or the axis normally by 42 feel they are behind and quit. I shamefully did the same in early 44 (?) with Jolly but only after getting tired of my mistakes due to inexperiance..... stupid partisans behind lakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 i have a moded version were the germans recieve one, italy one, USSR starts with 2 a bit much maybe. Britian and USA start with a paratrooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I was thinking tech should be reduced and diplo doubled. That way diplo will be costly and less problems with exploit getting Spain Turkey Sweden in on germany side. With lower tech britian can get some industry in. Sub tech would be more inclines. Tank tech more since i find i get cought in infintry weapons and and diplo. That way there can be tons of upgrading of units. Actually up german air tech to see a jet for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konigs Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I will not mention a name, but one of my Panzerliga mirror mode guys has a German engineer fortifying the hell out of the French interior. I am bombing the hell out of the engineer trying to kil it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 yeah i fortified the new german border of germany and USSR space with the max fort. While italian forifing france. I find it cool to be able to have them so soon but i think we will be reducing Russian one and making the engineers come in say a year later because I think they are in to early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I think engineers are quite ueseful and I have the feeling that with the next patch fortifications will be much more important (airfleet vs fortification problem) Problem for Germany to buy engineers is simply: - They take a hell of a time to buy - While you fortify the coastline you are a sitting duck for the already bored RAF and sepecially the Royal navy. Its kind of suicide task to try to fortify the coastline. On the smaller maps therefore there is no much need fpor fortresses . On bigger maps like the BIG map from Barcelona they have more importance because you have time to construct fortresses in important areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin I Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Agreed - the problem is Allied airpower which historically didn't stop Germans fortifying France. I've used them in North Africa - narrow front with limited supply so they are effective. I think build rate for fortification is right - despite complaints - otherwise you could build great wall of China in a year. Feel Engineers should reduce penalty for attacking fortifications (reduce level 2 per attack) and reduced penalty for attacking across rivers. Now they are useful - for most Nationalities Engineers were an offensive arm as well as defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scook Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I am also to the feeling in making the engineer unit into combat engineers, having better attack/defense that an army. Since every one has only one, that can be some elite trooper that would be more exspensive to replace. Heck with fort lines, I am going on the offensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Great idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodstar Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The main reason you won't see germany using engineer units is simple: Once Germany is on the defensive, everyone assumes the game is over and the Germans will lose. Why buy a defensive unit then? Change the victory conditions so the axis gets a victory for surviving to a certain date. then maybe people will start playing the game to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Blashy's mod accomplishes just that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 then perhaps it's time to make Blashy's mod the Staple start scenario? Or at least consider it Originally posted by SeaMonkey: Blashy's mod accomplishes just that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scook Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I have played Blashy's mod very extensively, and yes, it has a lot of changes that work really well. It has the most balaned flavor I can find so far, and it still looks a lot like the original game. Of course, that is from my viewpoint, and I haven't found too many loopholes to exploit, it has to be put forth on a large scale testing (ie: V1.03) and see what the grognards think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Nice, do what you need to do fellows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konigs Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I like teh ideas presented here, kinda like making them an assault division, designed for special assualts agaist well entrenched enemy, maybe the lower the overall entrenchmentby 50% or something. I think they would have to have motorization though. Just another 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I don't know if we're to that point yet Liam, making Blashy's mod the "staple", but it is definitely in the right direction. The "Sealion" problem has been vanquished, no doubt, with a real Royal Navy, sound historic? Its still possible, but with all the naval and air assets concentrated around UK, it will be dubious at best for Axis. And of course with the victory rules dependent upon a timeframe of Axis survival there is plenty of motivation to carry on until late 45, which is a more thoroughly enjoyable scenario than a rapid surrender of your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share Posted August 12, 2006 I was playing a game vs Terif where I knew I could have drawn it out till '45 but I doubt longer. It would have been an incentive to draw that match even I knew I only had to hold, and would be an incentive for him to attack to take Rome at some point.. Which if the Germans reserve up could be difficult Having the UK beefed up certianly doesn't hurt, as her ships get wounded she often loses them for the War. Not ahistorical, a wounded ship took awhile to repair historically... Forcing the Axis to spend to take England is the whole idea, it did cost them historically in airpower, enough that they were very short of planes for the invasion of Russia. Originally posted by SeaMonkey: I don't know if we're to that point yet Liam, making Blashy's mod the "staple", but it is definitely in the right direction. The "Sealion" problem has been vanquished, no doubt, with a real Royal Navy, sound historic? Its still possible, but with all the naval and air assets concentrated around UK, it will be dubious at best for Axis. And of course with the victory rules dependent upon a timeframe of Axis survival there is plenty of motivation to carry on until late 45, which is a more thoroughly enjoyable scenario than a rapid surrender of your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 After the new patch I'm thinking that Blashy's mod may well become the staple. I haven't played as Germans but imagining how I would play them with the Mod experience to guide me, it would seemingly mirror the historical pattern. Axis would expand initially and then at some point, and that is the key strategic decision(at what point), would want to start fortifying the Empire to survive the Allied attack. Now you would want that engineer. Sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaoJah Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I use them as Allied in my war path against the AI where I use my main army to conquer the all countries with my main army (UK, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Africa, Greece, Middle East, Swiss, Scandinavia,...). This makes the USSR come into play alot sooner, while I am still out there fighting with my main army. So I got to defend against the USSR invasion with a bunch of German level 3 corps. I use an Italian engineer to make 4 fortifications from that river on the German-USSR border down to Warshaw. They never break that fortified line, even with the Siberian reserve. Against a human player, they're all but worthless, because the airforce destroys all the entrenchements anyway. The 1.03 patch should change this, when all units get 3 entrenchement at the start of every turn when inside a fortification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioWizard Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I have an idea concerning engineers not beeing able to reproduce the kind of fortifications the Germans built on the shores of France. What would you think of them being able to also build landing damaging devices instead of the standard bunkers. These barb wires, land mines and weirdly shaped concrete blocks could just be sitting there without needing any unit to garrison it and amphib sent troops against it could have a higher percentage of landing casualty and/or higher damage! Also, regarding air vulnerability, maybe they could get one more point of air defense, or maybe even better, always getting an entrenchment point of 1 at the end of the same turn they had moved as they are a unit perfectly designed in Entrenching! An other idea could be that these anti-landing devices could be built instantly at the end of the same turn and give air defence value only to engineers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 I like the idea of a true Atlantic Wall, so long as the Allies have something to develop and break it with.. Make the Allies have to pound the Wall to land... Shorten Amphib OPs and make Calais and Normandy forceful landing zones, force it by reducing the morale of units travelling out of their zone of Amphibious operations severely with a huge penalty so that people do not launch amphibious craft from 3 thousand miles away... Realistic Though boost the Allied power to make it realistic as well that they were building up, more things in their Production as the war progresses... If you think on it, Sicily, Normandy were the two largest Amphibious operations of WW2, along with Torch... Most were launched from a few miles of coastline away.. Fortifications, and Engineers could be vital in this way by making the landing zones very very treacherous... make it difficult for Navies to unentrench units and bombers and fighters to kill them in entrenchments, give a AA bonus to them perhaps? That would become quite deadly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Your onto something Liam !, also what i would like to add is what really happened historically,...and that is,... because of the bad weather in the English Channel [believing that the Allies would dare not invade],...the German's relaxed their vigilance and were caught off-guard, thus making the Allied Amphibious invasion more successful!. At that same time, Counter-Intelligence had a conspiracy to fool the German's into believing that 'Patton' was going to lead the Main-Invasion-Assault at Calais!...and that the present invasion going on was just merely a diversion!. That's why Hitler refused to release the Panzer's to counter the Allied invasion effort!. Had those Panzer's been released or moved up to the coast as Rommel recommended, the D-Day invasion may have had a different result!. Maybey some of what i just mentioned could be factored into the game somehow!. For example, the convincing of Hitler to believe that Patton would invade Calais,...could become a random chance occurence that the Allied attacker would never know for sure until the actual invasion is attempted?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 What I would like to see is an inherent defensive strength for fortifications that can only be reduced by an attack of enemy forces. Doesn't matter if the fortification is occupied or not. A deliberate assault by the enemy simulates the final rooting out of the rearguard forces of the initial occupying force. You could also say it is the final ditch effort of the brave defensive diehards. Any attack, naval, air, amphib, para, or ground/artillery assault would accomplish the destruction after the occupiers have been vanquished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agamemnon Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Shorten Amphib OPs and make Calais and Normandy forceful landing zones, force it by reducing the morale of units travelling out of their zone of Amphibious operations severely with a huge penalty so that people do not launch amphibious craft from 3 thousand miles away... Realistic Didn't the US invade North Africa from a long ways off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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