Latest Yodl exploits doom SC-2

[Liam]

Agreed Yoda should've passed his satisfactory light sabre over this creation. We'd of done away with several months of waiting

[Retributar]

Hind-Sight is alway's '20-20', BUT-NOW that we are enlightened/educated, we will now know better whom to tap for the final touches & blessing's in finalizing the Yea' or Nay' on the completeness and or readiness of the game to be unleashed on us victim's/prey!.

[Blashy]

If Terif would have been a tester my thought is that it would have been delayed.

Better it come out and we enjoy it now even with its faults. At least we don't check every day to see if there is a new screenshot.

[Baron]

I think Terif does a great job of learning and exploiting the rules of the game. Most IT departments have the same type of system in place before they push a software patch so that there aren't any bad "surprises" I for one do not like dissecting the rules or mechanics of a game because it doesn't interest me. I'm the kind of gamer that wants to install the cd and start playing the game right out of the box - hence the "beer and pretzels” analogy. I do however applaud their work.

There was such a clamor to get this game to market by all of us players that allot of bugs shipped with initial version. As someone pointed out it took 7 patches to get SC1 "right" and it then went on to evolve into SC2. Is the game where it should be at this point? IMHO I’d say no but I believe it is getting there. Below is a list of improvements I’d like to see. Most are just rehashes of others ideas but one or two of them I’ve mentioned before and I’d still like to see implemented.

1) Better naval rules: I realize that WWII Europe was primarily an air/land conflict but by making the naval rules more entertaining I believe it would add to the game. Surface ships on the convoy routes should inflict damage. They did not inflict as much as the subs did but they did inflict some. Furthermore they were not on the shipping routes as often nor were there as many of them as there were subs yet they tied down considerable resources to prevent them from getting to sea. When they did even more resources were used to try and hunt them down and by being at sea they helped the air and sub forces. Does anybody remember the story of PQ17?

2) The Axis powers should get at least a minor victory if they survive longer than May of 1945, any other result would be an Allied victory period.

3) The conversation about the morale rules has been very enlightening. However there is an aspect that has not been considered. The war weariness effect. Having been deployed in combat twice in my life I know that the longer you are there the harder it gets. How often can I tempt fate and get away with it was a very real aspect of my experiences. What I propose is a morale penalty if a country has been at war with a certain country for more than a certain amount of time. I’d enforce this penalty against the Axis as the onus was on them to attack and succeed. As the war got longer the Allies got stronger and stronger. The “ants and the elephants” comes to mind. So what about a cumulative negative effect on Axis morale for every winter at war with the USSR after the first one? I choose the USSR as they caused most of the German casualties. An additional penalty could be added each January that the US and UK are in the war.

These are just some suggestions I think would add to the game and that I’d like to see.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Hellraiser --- Dude, I'm just stating facts. Kind of like the fact I cracked you.

Thing is, everybody is a Yodl-Wannabee (Attack of the Clones). Are there any originals out there? I play numerous players, and I can tell if they'd play Yodl recently.

Difference is, Yodl plays perfectly, although too slooooow. Yodl is a slooooooow player, who refuses to play with a timer, that's a very stubborn attitude.

My game is different each time. Some games I build subs, others rockets, tanks, whatever. I refuse to become another brick in the wall like the majority.

[jon_j_rambo]

Bottom line: SC-2 is turning out just like SC-1, that I'm stuck as the 2nd best player in the world. My record speaks for itself.

[SeaMonkey]

So Rambo, I'm interested in your experience with the use of rockets, other than what's been stated before.

Would you advocate a cheaper purchase price to get them into the counter mix on more than an occasional basis?

[jon_j_rambo]

@SeaMonkey --- Rockets are a "dumb strategy" based on Terif's Cookie Cutter he's established.

So, if you want rockets (or any other item to be used to vary strategies), then something has to be done. Yes, cheapening the cost would tempt people to do other things.

[SeaMonkey]

Is this comment based on the fact that the morale escalation for conquering minors will be fixed in the next patch or are you referring to it as probably not a good idea even with the fix?

[Lars]

Originally posted by Baron:

2) The Axis powers should get at least a minor victory if they survive longer than May of 1945, any other result would be an Allied victory period.

On what basis?

Just because you lasted longer than historical before dying is not a "victory". You can take satisfaction in it, but it ain't success.

Besides, you knew what was coming.

[jon_j_rambo]

@SM --- Rockets are probably not a good idea independent of morale exploit. On the otherhand, I prefer doing different strategies, independent of Yodl & his clones.

[Baron]

Lars,

I reach that conclusion very simply. We know when the war started and we know when it ended. If the Axis forces survive longer than they did historically then I'd say it was a "victory". I don't believe that they would have won in any sense with the rest of the Western world arrayed against them combined with the mistakes they made.

We do have to gauge victory somehow. With all the variables built into this game the one constant is the date I think as the only constant it could and should be used to judge victory.

[Curry]

Originally posted by Blashy:

If Terif would have been a tester my thought is that it would have been delayed.

Better it come out and we enjoy it now even with its faults. At least we don't check every day to see if there is a new screenshot.

Perhaps a little. But why not use the very best if, and its a if, if - Terif would have been willing. Did anyone at BF even ask him??? Anyone who knows SC knows how Terif is at this game. That he wasnt used as a beta is a mystery to me and just foolish. I don't often agree with Rambo but I think he is totally correct in this case and should be given his due. I remember him saying it several times.

Anyway - Thankfully the game has the great editor unlike SC1 and many of us can ignore the competition game and play the mods. I keep going back to that because for myself its the best part of SCII. You dont have to worry about the cookie cutter or all the exploits. It takes the game back for me at least to a war game and not an exploit game.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Originally posted by Curry:

This is sad. I also think its another reason why fewer people are playing SC2 in human verses human than played SC1. It has not turned out to be a war game of WWII but a game of knowning the exploits.

The scripting code was a great idea. How it has been

actually implemented has not gone so well. There

should be more random numbers attached to certain

triggers, and perhaps more random events overall

(what were called "variants" in Third Reich). We

currently enjoy a hindsight that the real leaders

of the time simply did not have, and thus we have

all these Perfect Plans floating about.

For ex. the French campaign is even more of a

walkover in SC2 than it was in SC1 but few people

high up in the German High Command (other than

Hitler of course) believed that the French campaign

would be over so quickly. But we can certainly

count on that happening, and can plan for the

aftermath accordingly.

As a naval buff I'd also like to see more naval

bells and whistles (raiders and separated CVs/

airwings would be a start).

[SeaMonkey]

Hell its not to late yet! Get Terif in the beta team right now, if he's willing.

Then get on with the patches and let's get to a settled format. Then we can start some real custom modding, while HC investigates a new product, like some real Pacific naval-air warfare.

There's a new board game out that has accumulated some accolades, "Fire in the Sky", might be ripe for a massaged PC game based loosely on its mechanics.

[Retributar]

"Terif!!!...Terif!!!...Terif!!!..." SC2' (Not Uncle Sam!) NEED'S YOU!!!.

The SC2 Beta-Team NEED'S YOU !!!

[Jollyguy]

I concur with a prior poster that the scripts are great ideas, but for real variability every script should be tied to a more random percentage of probability. Then a player could gamble on doing a risky move. I.e., U.S. naval units near Spain would only be X% likely to trigger a response from Franco, and maybe the response could even be favorable in a small % of instances.

I know many of the DOW events are like this, so IMO if the scripts were too it would leave more gameplay options open.

Bob

[jon_j_rambo]

Remember, My Little Green Friend:

Yodl = Yoda + Model + Jodl + Terif

[Liam]

Good Post JollyGuy, I'm your opponent in SC2 1.2 PBEM. We're yet to be finished, as you can see my knowledge of the scripts gave me a signficant edge.

I endorse a random scriptinator. I'm not sure the logistics, perhaps why it will not be done. If nothing else, a random script released every week or two you apply to your game, noone can view on Programmer password

[Liam]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Remember, My Little Green Friend:

Yodl = Yoda + Model + Jodl + Terif

Indeed Master Rambo, knowledge of the scripts has done me well, nearing a dozen victories over you lesser Jedi, bow before your new Master!

Rambo, hiding from Threats Abroad and from the SC2 Scriptinator

[jon_j_rambo]

@Liam --- Huh? You on the bottle again? I just took you down, kid. Does Patton cutting thru France ring a bell? Does Patton in Switzerland job your memory? Does Patton in North Italy make things clear? Does the Allies in Sardina give you a reality check with your navies at the bottom of the sea? Does the Russian counter attack in Winter 1943 make you feel like a winner?

My Win/Loss records are clearly posted. You've beaten ONCE! Repeat, ONCE! That was only after so many victories, I got bored & bought rockets.

"Read the log books" --- Col. Jessup

When do you want to play some TCP/IP? Get your appointment now. Can't be today, I'm going out with my Lady later.

-Legend

[jon_j_rambo]

@Liam --- Also, I know you've been playing Yodl, trying to clone his moves. Sad thing is, you couldn't do it, HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. In a word,"Patton in France".

-Legend

[SeaMonkey]

OK this crass exchange instigates a rematch, and this time we want an AAR.

[Liam]

Aha! 2 out of the last 3 matches Liam

You surrendered before Ike landed on your Axis shores, O'Connor was all that was needed in Syria

and my current Allies have you in the bag, we're just waiting for the PBEM turn

Master Wendo you're outclassed by the my knowledge of the Scripts You may have a kewl light sabre battle but you cannot make the walls come down as I do upon you. Yes Master Yoda's presence has taught me well

and you may have a rematch, I'll mail you an Axis turn to go with our current Allied game tonight, if you wish to continue that fruitless battle. if you survive as I did till 1945 vs 15 level4 Russian tanks!

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

@Liam --- Also, I know you've been playing Yodl, trying to clone his moves. Sad thing is, you couldn't do it, HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. In a word,"Patton in France".

-Legend

[SeaMonkey]

Well Rambo??? What about it?

Sounds like Liam is "calling you out"?

Scared? Are you really #2(not), or maybe you're just full of #2.

Remember guys,....AAR.