Ex Bellator Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 My TCP buddy has discovered the joys of those cheap but effective 20mm AA guns. He tends to place a few of them well back anywhere with a good view knowing full well that in order to get rid of the little buggers I'll have to reveal my heavier units or waste expensive and limited artillery on them. Frequently if an AFV attempts to deal with them I will sustain track and gun damage from them before I begin to hurt them in return. I may just be unlucky but it seems a bit overmodeled IMHO. As we usually play 1000-1250 point ME's I don't have masses of toys available, so any ideas from you guys would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PondScum Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 If you're playing Brits, two or three 2" mortars under the control of a double-combat-bonus leader can do a real number on a 20mm flak gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Or the trusty 3" mortar if they are more than 450 yards (meters?) away. - marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George-III Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 I agree with PondScum. Use on-board mortars with a leader. Keep the mortar back where the 20mm cant see it, and move the leader up to a position where he can see the 20mm and is still in command of the mortar, then use indirect fire to kill it. Another way to kill these is to move a tank forward VERY slowly. Each turn you draw an area-fire line toward the 20mm gun until your tank is in position to area-fire near the gun but the gun still cant see it. Then just area fire near it till it dies. This takes VERY carefull manuevering but when you pull it off it is great. Hope these ideas help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 On map mortars or a full sized tank with frontal facing. And if you use the tank, be sure you have identified the target location beforehand, not just a sound. Otherwise you won't target it correctly, and area fire can be delivered to the wrong place. Another useful trick vs. these nasty critters - and their cousins, the 75mm infantry guns and puppchens - is to exploit their effectively stationary positions. Avoid their LOS, and creep a mortar or mortar-directing HQ, or a tank, to a spot with LOS to right next to the gun, but not able to get LOS to the gun itself. It won't be able to move to establish LOS itself. Then, deliver "area fire" right next to the gun, without being able to see the exact location. You can still knock it out, with the area effect of HE. Whereas they need to see things and don't move. So, (slaps forehead dramatically) don't help them see things. But yeah, they -are- overmodeled and underpriced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: But yeah, they -are- overmodeled and underpriced...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll say. Several times I've played QBs against the AI where it's had at least a half dozen of these annoying bastards strewn across the battlefield. Very gamey, I say! :mad: Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 Well, As a German player (most of the time) I spend a few extra bucks and get the 20mm on the halftrack. I place it in areas with long LOS where enemy soft targets will be passing through. I also make sure I have secondary firing positions ready and hidden routes to get to them. Once I open up on the enemy I only stay there for a couple of turns or maybe three. I then beat feet to that second sweet spot. You can't believe the number of indirect fire missions that have fallen right where my Sd Kfs 7/1 was sitting only a half a turn before. Secret is to shoot and move. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted September 11, 2001 Author Share Posted September 11, 2001 Thanks, on map mortars with good commanders or 'near target' area fire will hopefully do the trick this weekend. I'll particularly favour the latter, which seems almost as sneaky as him actually buying the infernal damn things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted September 11, 2001 Share Posted September 11, 2001 Buy a flamethrower unit and walk them slowly back and forth. When the guns open fire you can find them without a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 I can vouch for the effectiveness of on-board mortars against these things. IN a recent TCP/IP game, my opponent made like Davy Crockett with his 2" mortars, wiping out several on-board guns. If you have the cover to do it, an infantry platoon that gets within 75m can usually take out the Flak Truck with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: On map mortars or a full sized tank with frontal facing. And if you use the tank, be sure you have identified the target location beforehand, not just a sound. Otherwise you won't target it correctly, and area fire can be delivered to the wrong place.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If a 20mm gun fires for several turns at a stationary target (e.g. infantry), the impact locations will end up drawing a nice, neat line which points directly at the gun. This, combined with the sound contact, can sometimes be used to locate the gun even when it hasn't been spotted. In a recent game I was able to find a gun and destroy it with on-map mortars using this technique, even though I never had a visual contact. You have to make visual contact to verify that it's dead, though, or you could waste a lot of ammo on a gun that's already destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2001 Share Posted September 14, 2001 When my 20mm get killed it seems to always be by those evil .50 cals. Yep, more then once a .50 cal jeep has taken out my 20mm sweetheart. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybeq Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 The weakness of the 20mm AA gun is the same weakness as all AA/AT/INF guns. They are effectively immobile. I try to smoke'em and get out of their LOS or assault with infantry through the smoke. They can't shoot if they can't see. They can't manuever around the smoke since they can't move so a smoked gun position is neutralized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigZergRat Posted September 16, 2001 Share Posted September 16, 2001 yeah tread, i got her with a .50 cal and lets not forget that Elite polish infantry squad that took one out at 200+M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l3w53r Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Yup. I once took out 3 ATG's with a couple of Jeep .50's .Kept the guns busy with my infantry and then let my jeeps kick up some dust, circled the guns 1 round with a jeep for each gun and then move both towards the last one. They did not reach it though, A 105 Sherman appeared and blew it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRSutton Posted September 22, 2001 Share Posted September 22, 2001 Actually, if they are poorly supported they can also be taken out by an infantry rush. Use one squad to supress and draw fire while rushing with one or two others. They are not especially deadly at close range-If you are moving and shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Savage Posted September 23, 2001 Share Posted September 23, 2001 I definately believe a couple of very mobile units like jeeps with m/g's can do the trick. --------------------------------------------- "For now on,we'll be registering on the German radar screens. The Luftwaffe's already warming up for us, so watch your chatter;let's not tell 'em any more than we have to." General Frank Savage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTHenry Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Use on board mortars or high mobility units like jeeps or armored cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts