BRO, JD Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I've played the demo and really enjoy it. The graphics and gameplay are great--this is quite a merger of the tactical wargame (my preference) with a first-person view of the battlefield. But do I want to buy this game? What does the full $$ version of the game have that the demo doesn't? The reason I ask--I was a bit disappointed in the two scenarios, and I'm not sure if this game is worth my scarce dollars and even scarcer free time. The crossroads scenario--not much too it, imho. Bound your tanks forward, trying to find hull-down positions and knock out the field guns. The infantry weren't a real threat to. The battalion attack--heavy and cumbersome. I lost most of one company on the very first turn when some arty shells fell on it. The remainder of the company never moved farther than about 100 meters. My other two companies were able to move forward, take one objective, and dispute the second. Still, this scenario didn't feel that much different than many other wargames when you've got to just keep pushing, pushing, pushing your infantry--regroup--push--until finally one or two shot-up and demoralized squads are fighting it out with the same from the enemy on the objective. So--should I buy CMBB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pies Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 YES YES YES Its generally agreed that the demos were merely to showcase the new commands and do not provide much of a challenge. If you want your a$$ handed to you regularly by the AI and a wealth of excellent scenarios and operations you have no choice but to buy this game. Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 The crossroads scenario--not much too it, imho. Bound your tanks forward, trying to find hull-down positions and knock out the field guns. The infantry weren't a real threat to. Try it again as the Russians. They you will see what a true challenge is. The battalion attack--heavy and cumbersome. I lost most of one company on the very first turn when some arty shells fell on it. The remainder of the company never moved farther than about 100 meters. My other two companies were able to move forward, take one objective, and dispute the second. Still, this scenario didn't feel that much different than many other wargames when you've got to just keep pushing, pushing, pushing your infantry--regroup--push--until finally one or two shot-up and demoralized squads are fighting it out with the same from the enemy on the objective. This Senario was meant to showcase the new effectiveness of the Tripod mounted Machineguns, because in the original CM:BO they were just abut useless. CM:BB changed all of that. On the other hand, it isn't much fun to watch your forces get mowed down in a open field so I understand your frustration. The real fun is in the QB (Quick battle generator). Nothing says "Fun" like night fighting in a Blizzard with Flamethrowers or creeping your tanks and infantry through a heavy forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Just to be the square peg in the round hole, if the CMBB demo didnt grab you, try downloading the CMBO demo. I am one of those weird mob who actually prefer the first game. Is also alot cheaper and it served many on this board with 2 years of continuous gameplay. By the time you get tired of that you can move onto CMBB in a year or two Puts on helmet, ducks a under table awaiting the "barrage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Pud: Just to be the square peg in the round hole, if the CMBB demo didnt grab you, try downloading the CMBO demo. I am one of those weird mob who actually prefer the first game. Is also alot cheaper and it served many on this board with 2 years of continuous gameplay. By the time you get tired of that you can move onto CMBB in a year or two Puts on helmet, ducks a under table awaiting the "barrage".Roger that Pud! I still like the fun factor in CMBO, if Bro, JD did not play CMBO he should buy that first if he is worried about the cost as it is cheaper. AND Hell Yes! play the CMBO demo too! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Pud: Just to be the square peg in the round hole, if the CMBB demo didnt grab you, try downloading the CMBO demo. I am one of those weird mob who actually prefer the first game.What's wrong with you!!! Are you crazy!!??? Just kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsatian Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Ditto on trying the CMBO demo too. The CMBO demo scenarios will exhibit the complexity you're wondering about, and will show the overall capabilities of the game engine. The CMBB demo merely highlights improvements. Plus, by downloading the CMBO demo, that's TWO more free scenarios for you. [ November 11, 2002, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Alsatian ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Alsatian: Ditto on trying the CMBO demo too. The CMBO demo scenarios will exhibit the complexity you're wondering about, and will show the overall capabilities of the game engine. The CMBB demo merely highlights improvements. Plus, by downloading the CMBO demo, that's TWO more free scenarios for you.There was actually quite a discussion on this board about the CMBB demo scenarios not being up to the standard (battle-excitement wise) of the CMBO demos. They really were just designed to showcase new CMBB features, which is fine for us dedicated addicts, but a potential problem for new players who want to be wowed. But CM is the best wargame ever, and one of the great things about it is the scenario editor, which allows anyone to design scenarios--there are now thousands for CMBO and a rapidly growing phalanx for CMBB. Scenarios are often designed by well organized, volunteer teams, who design and playtest the scenarios, then publish them at the Scenario Depot, where they are reviewed by CM players. (This whole CM thing is by now a highly developed cooperative community--kind of amazing, really.) So any kind of battle you might want either exists or can be made. Plus, there is the Quick Battle (QB) generator, which allows you to generate any kind of and size of battle for play against human opponents or the AI. Now, onto the CMBO demos. They are two GREAT battles and will give you a better idea of the tactical complexities both of the games are capable of. I'd give them a try--I played both dozens of times with great pleasure while waiting for the then-out-of-print game to ship. IT might well be a good idea to buy CMBO first, then move on to CMBB when ready. Anyway, it's hard to imagine a better spent dollar then one spent on these games. Their continuous playability and depth are just amazing. Edit: BTW, I just noticed your member # in the 9000s. Do you already have CMBO? Anyway, the full version of either game is well worth buying to get the ability to play ALL of the existing scenarios (not just the demos) and to gain access to PBEMs, the scenario editor and QBs. [ November 11, 2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Look at the game screenshots on the Battlefront.com main page. Instead of 4(?) different types of vehicle in the demo you get to play with 300! Fight in snowstorms, at night, in cities. Do tiny squad-vs-squad scenarios or gigantic battalion-vs-battalion scenarios. Do early war tanks or late war tanks, heavy tanks and/or light tanks. Attack hilltops, attack bunkers. This is a VERY VERY big game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassner.1 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 CM:BB is most certainly worth every dollar that you would spend upon it. It really is the best WWII tactical wargame to date, and endless fun. I just fought one of the canned scenarios from CM:BB yesterday - fending off a massive attack by Russian ISU 152 and 122s - and had one heck of an intense game. Additionally, with all of the new commands in CM:BB, I cannot go back to CM:BO. Get CM:BB - you will not regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jard Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 What are you waiting for?? While you stand there deciding what to do, someone else is receiving YOUR copy of CMBB/CMBO and already enjoying the BEST tactic wargame of all times............ I s*** you NOT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Are you guys nuts? The AI is horrible! I've beet them every time! And I'm so far undefeated in four TCP/IPs... So what are you gusy talking about?? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Pusher Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 The CMBB demo is very poor at selling the game as somthing worthwhile IMHO. I almost didnt bother buying the game as a result . But the full game thing is MUCH better and worthy of your (soon to be much diminished) free time. Go for it. And welcome to the club..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Dude, trust me on this one YOU WILL BE ECSTATIC AFTER YOU PLAY THE FULL VERSON. seriously, I had all but given up on PC war games until i got this. It is just plain phenomenal. The realism, number of units, details, textures, the list never ends. Plus the great support. I will probably lose my wife over this game oh, and there is the PBEM which I think is such a cool option. great community too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRO, JD Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Thanks, folks--I'm sold. And my member # is in the 9000s because I've purchased both TacOps 3 and Strategic Command from BFC. I did download the CMBO demo and played it a few times, but never got around to purchasing it (for reasons that have nothing to do with the gameplay). Anyway, the bundle is now on my Christmas list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Phosphorus Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Originally posted by Lord General MB: Are you guys nuts? The AI is horrible! I've beet them every time! And I'm so far undefeated in four TCP/IPs... So what are you gusy talking about?? :confused: Try playing the Soviets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattman2000 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 The AI is not horrible. I've read a couple of posts where folks were talking about its inability to adapt (set up good defense and it'll likely keep feeding troops and tanks in the meatgrinder). They may have a point. But then, I've never seen a wargame where the AI could really and truly adapt to what the human player was doing. Up until CM, neither had I seen a wargame where a light tank controlled by the AI realizes it's in trouble, pops smoke, and reverses the hell out of dodge. If a scenario is too easy as the Germans, or too easy as the Soviets, then switch sides. Odds are you were playing it from the wrong point of view in the first place. You'll sweat a little more trying to move your T-34s around an open field covered by King Tigers. And you won't like watching your crew brew up, either. If that doesn't work, bump up the opposition's strength and experience. But I just went off on a major tangent. The game is worth every penny. Go get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Im not bashing the game, Its just a fact. Everyone talks about how horribly they are beaten by the AI... The AI has never beat me, or evern come close. BTW: one of those TCP/IP wins WAS as soviets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 How about Mr. John Kettler's sterling endorsement of CM: ------------------------------ I've been wargaming since age twelve when I got Avalon Hill's Tactics II for Christmas. If it had hexes, squares or required a protractor and measuring tape I played it. Whether on a map on a table top, on a sand table or on the floor, I played it. I've pushed cardboard, lead and plastic for almost 34 years, in everything from man-to-man combat to grand strategy, and spent over eleven years as a professional military analyst for Hughes and Rockwell. In that time I became convinced that nothing could ever equal, successively, board wargaming, then wargaming with miniatures. I tried computer gaming (SSI's Red Lightning) and hated it. Things looked bleak, for wargaming period was in dire trouble, when out of the blue I learned about two new developments, Panzer Elite, a deeply immersive you-are-there individual and platoon level armor sim, and Combat Mission, which found me while reading a Panzer Elite review, via the now famous banner--"the battalion's ready!" Combat Mission is immersive, terrifyingly so, but it is the immersion that comes from bearing the crushing responsibilities of a battlefield commander (up to battalion level) dealing with men under fire, men who are far more fond of their hides than in seizing the objective one day, but who fight to the last man the next. It is an experience of carefully nursing green troops to the objective, taking casualties all the while, only to have the big attack collapse when all seems destined for success. It is screaming with frustration because fire support is late in coming; it is cringing as fighter bombers roll in on the target while you pray fervently they don't drop on your troops. Combat Mission is discovering too late that you forgot to shift fire, meaning you are now shelling your own troops. It is the triumph of a well-executed ambush, the sharpshooter's kill of a Tiger commander and the grenade dropped from the upper floor into a Hellcat driving past the window. It is the shattering blast of a K-killed tank, the whoosh of a flamethrower, the crack of high velocity guns, the roaring crump of artillery fire and the heaving of the earth that goes with it. It is the ripping sound of MG-42s firing, answered by the chugging bursts of the .50 cal MG. It is the sound of the sky ripping apart under Nebelwerfer and battleship fire. It is the sound of orders given in the language of the men fighting; their screams of pain when hit and dying. It is of vistas so beautiful they take your breath away, and scenes of devastation which practically make you gag. Everything except the actual performance characteristics is customizable, too--uniforms, faces, vehicle paint schemes, buildings, bridges, the grass itself. Mods galore are available for free. You can play the battles and operations (series of battles) on the CD, download dozens for free from a bunch of sites, let the computer do a Quick Battle for you (just set the basic parameters) or design your own with the complete Scenario Designer which is included. You can fight the good AI, play by hotseat, play by E-mail or download the beta patch and play on the Internet or via LAN. What you've read about in the history books will come to life for you when you have Combat Mission. If you're still not convinced, download and play the demo. Bear in mind, though, that it is as nothing to the full game. If you are convinced, why are you still here when you need to be ordering? Simply put, gossamer, you can't afford not to have this game. There simply aren't enough superlatives to describe it. Nor have you ever seen such devotion, customer support and incredible levels of knowledge in the company and here on this many-faceted Forum. Welcome aboard! Sincerely, John Kettler ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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