CMBB - A Deadly Affair - thoughts? (no spoilers)

[Juardis]

I'm playing the Russians. It's my first CMBB scenario. I'm getting my ass handed to me by a capable opponent. He thinks it's horribly unbalanced. I'm not sure since this is my first experience with CMBB. To those of you who are 1) experienced with CMBB and 2) have played this scenario, do you think it's unbalanced? Is it possible for the Russians to win (or at least represent well)? I mean, when I say I'm losing I'm down 95-5, and I CONTROL the big flag!

[xerxes]

Worst thing about it is, you're not going to keep that flag Juardis.

[Atlas_TH]

I thought this was a player v. AI scenario?

Anyway, remember, your opponent NEEDS to exit much of his force before the game ends. Don't count yourself out.

[Juardis]

Originally posted by Atlas_TH:

Anyway, remember, your opponent NEEDS to exit much of his force before the game ends. Don't count yourself out.

His opponent (me) has nothing left to exit the map. They're dead....all dead. I guess I could try to exit the ko'd crews, but they no longer say that they have to exit for points, so I'm assuming all they have to do is stay alive.

As for playing against the AI, does that mean it's a horribly unbalanced scenario if you play against a human

xerxes/marcs, you're correct, whatever assets I have around that flag are soon to be dead assets I am sure.

[Gpig]

Hey there.

The Russians aren't supposed to exit, the Germans have a bunch of units that are supposed to exit.

I've played this battle and I can help you out with a few spoilers;

SPOILERS!!!

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Well, the Russian partisans will have a hell of a time versus any capable german player. The germans get plenty of MG's and a platoon of quality Panzergrenadiers.

The Partisans DO get a reinforced company of infantry so it does not seem TOO unbalanced to me.

If I were going to play this one as the Russians, I'd keep most of my forces in concealment near the choke points on the map. The germans have to squeeze through a tight spot to move their convoy (in order to get exit points), so while they're moving I'd just position my troops with an eye towards ambush ambush and MORE ambush.

In the meantime, I'd sneak my AT rifles up and start merrily plinking away at all those lovely german halftracks.

It would be a tough one to win as the partisans, but if you can stop him from exiting his convoy off map, you could call that a victory.

I played this one as the Germans and WAXED the Russian A.I. 96 to 4.

I believe the stronger player should play the partisans.

Gpig

[Agua]

Originally posted by Gpig:

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If I were going to play this one as the Russians, I'd keep most of my forces in concealment near the choke points on the map. The germans have to squeeze through a tight spot to move their convoy (in order to get exit points), so while they're moving I'd just position my troops with an eye towards ambush ambush and MORE ambush.

In the meantime, I'd sneak my AT rifles up and start merrily plinking away at all those lovely german halftracks.

Yup. Played it as well as Germans and had the same result. If I were to play Russians, that's exactly what I'd do. Don't they have a single ATG? Maybe not, but seems like that do. If so, find a spot on your right, just inside that first choke point closest to town (it seems like there's an orchard or something there) and set your ATG up with a narrow cover armour arc so as to enable you to fire upon his vehicles one at a time as they cross into LOS on the road at the chokepoint.

[xerxes]

wait, wait, have people playing the Germans actually won this against another player?

[GriffinCheng+]

Heck! The title says "no spoilers" but it is the othe r way round down here.

Okay, spoilers as usual:

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Anyway, this is also my first date. The Russian AI was quite "brave" for they just keep coming towards my forces on the road! If the German player is flexible enough -- e.g. forget about the flag and find another way out, victory is not such a problem. I am still trying this as Russian.

[Murph]

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So after playing a couple of the smallish scenarios I'm getting used to getting a "minor tactical victory" at best, the AI is really giving me a hard time, specially if I'm on the attack.

I played the above scenario last night and I killed the AI, I think it was a 92% major victory. The AI surrendered on turn 14 or so, and I had lost no vehicles at all.

What is going on here? I know I'm not that good. Did I just get lucky? I took a lot of shots that were minor penetrations, but never lost a vehicle, and I massed fire with a wide assortment of light tanks and halftracks everytime the partisans showed their heads. Wiped out hte platoon on the left, wiped out the platoon on the right, and then destroyed whoever was still in the town, with my dismounted platoon sweeping the woods on the right.

Now, I know they're partisans (albeit veteran), and I was playing full FOW, not extreme, and the computer had no bonus (none was suggested in the briefing).

Why did I do so well? I'm curious because most scenarios are designed so that I have a hard time, yet this one went just great. Did I get lucky? Was there a scheduled air strike or something on his side that never materialized? I read above about AT guns, but the Russians didn't have any in the battle I fought...I was puzzled to roll over him like that, made me feel like I actually new how to play!

That's when I know something is wrong and I need to post about it

Murph

[xerxes]

I'm wondering whether I just got very lucky with my ATRs.

[Gpig]

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OK. So I just replayed this battle as the Russian Partisans this time. I noticed in the briefings that the battle was designed to be played two player tcp/IP and/or PBEM. If playing versus the computer, the player should be the Germans.

Like I said, this time I tried it as the Russians. It was a bit more difficult than playing as the germans. Mostly because you have to rely on ATR's and human courage to take out any armored units. Whereas with the Germans, they just need to spray the woods with MG fire. (They start the game with at least 9 MG's mounted on vehicles.)

Playing as the Partisans, my ATR's accounted for almost all of the halftracks. They did a pretty good job. The Trucks were taken out by my infantry and MG's. Actually, my Maxim team that came as reinforcements took care of a truck and both armored cars (222's?). I found that pretty interesting.

Towards the end of the game, the German Pz II's where galavanting around the flag trying to take control. I close assualted them with a full platoon of partisans. Molotovs were flying everywhich way. But it still took 3 minutes to take them out. (And I lost 2 squads and a company commander in the effort.)

OVerall, a TOTAL VICTORY.

I realize I had advance notice of the German OOB (having played it already), but I tried not to let that influence my set-up and deployment.

OVerall, I'd say that this scenario should NOT be played versus the A.I.. But could REALLY SHOW IT'S TRUE potential as player vs player.

(Just like the scenario designer wanted)

Gpig

[Juardis]

OK, my bad. I am the Germans. xerxes is the Russians. Turn 1, move my MG team in kubelwagon towards trees well away from the town. He mowed it down on turn 3 with a plt of his own. I move my mounted plt along road to prepare to assault the wooded location near the x-road. My HT with the inf HQ unit got shocked and ran off the road, my infantry kept going and dismounted out of C&C, took fire, and they all panicked. Meanwhile, another plt of Russians shows up on the flanks so now the road is covered from both directions and I have no infantry. Some AT gun took out my scout cars, my HTs didn't seem to pin his infantry, but my infantry seemed brittle. My trucks are dead since he had the road covered.

Anyway, I need more help it appears but perhaps playing against a decent Russian player the Germans have a MUCH harder time of it than you guys had.

[Gpig]

OK, my bad. I am the Germans. xerxes is the Russians. Turn 1, move my MG team in

kubelwagon towards trees well away from the town. He mowed it down on turn 3 with

a plt of his own. I move my mounted plt along road to prepare to assault the wooded

location near the x-road. My HT with the inf HQ unit got shocked and ran off the road,

my infantry kept going and dismounted out of C&C, took fire, and they all panicked.

Meanwhile, another plt of Russians shows up on the flanks so now the road is covered

from both directions and I have no infantry. Some AT gun took out my scout cars, my

HTs didn't seem to pin his infantry, but my infantry seemed brittle. My trucks are dead

since he had the road covered.

Anyway, I need more help it appears but perhaps playing against a decent Russian

player the Germans have a MUCH harder time of it than you guys had.

Well, we are in agreement here. I played the A.I. and the A.I. was pretty pathetic in this one. Kind of made my job easier. But I also made a few assumptions as the German commander early-on that helped my final battle result.

1) The mission briefing stated that Partisans had been sighted in the village. With this information, I decided to assault the village with infantry leading.

2) I assumed that with all the wooded terrain surrounding the approach to the town, there WOULD be enemy infantry/snipers/ATR's hidden there/everywhere (and on BOTH sides of the road). So my plan would be to speed my infantry to good cover and disembark/assualt a midpoint woodline along the RIGHT side of the road. (I decided to pick ONE SIDE of the road to fight on since my infantry force was too thin to cover all approaches.) From there they would advance to the town (with the right side of the road having the best cover on approach to the flag.)

3) I set up as much overwatch as possible. Both 75mm halftracks remain near initial starting positions with Good LOS to all terrain features. I disembark the HMG team from the kubelwagon and set them up as well in overwatch.

4) send out my scout cars to "flush" the enemy.

By turn 2 and 3 I had a platoon dismounted in the woods mid-way to the objective and was confident they were in thier "element." (And with a GREAT leader.)

When the partisan scum appeared on the right flank, my overwatch team immediately suppressed half of them. Then I ADVANCED/Assualted with my PzGndr platoon and routed them within 2 minutes having recieved only one casualty.

That was the turning point. From there on I "guessed" that any further emeny activity would come from the opposite side of the road, so my reinforcements were set-up to cover the left without getting too close. The Reinforcing 222's and the Pz II's did a GREAT job of this.

Then my halftracks (incl. the 75mm armed ones, STILL in overwatch), and PnzGdr Platoon proceeded on to assualt the village.

I guess my one piece of advice would be (if you're asking) to read the briefing carefully. Make a plan, and try to stick to it.

I guess I was being a bit gamey by trying to read the scenario authors mind (what with placing a platoon of partisans on the right, then one on the left . . . ), but I couldn't help that.

Playing a human player WOULD be much more difficult. Unfortunately, I won't be able to test that as I've blown my wad for this scenario.

Gpig

[xerxes]

I hate those 75mm HTs, quite a pain really. Juardis is guarding the flag like a junk yard dog. One platoon that I snuck into range to close assault one of his HTs in the village was literally cut in half in about 15 seconds. The rest of the partisans are telling me they aren't going near those beasts.

[Windopaene]

SPOILERS SORT OF

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I'm playing this one right now as the Germans in a PBEM, and am getting my ass handed to me. Things went bad from the start as I dropped off my infantry in the woods to the far right, right where the road turns. Unfortuneately, there were a whole lot of partisans hiding in there. I killed a bunch of them I think, but lost ALL of my grenadiers.

All of my trucks have gone kaboom.

All I have left are the tanks and some of the HT/Acs, those I've lost some of each. I've taken the main town flag, but holding on to it, while still trying to exit, is going to be very tough.

[Juardis]

Originally posted by Windopaene:

SPOILERS SORT OF

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yep, your experience is very similar to mine. I spent half the game trying to figure out what the hell the russians have that can fire AT rounds at approximately 15-20 rounds/minute. I haven't done any testing, no QBs, not even the demo. This is my first game and it's frustrating as hell not knowing what I'm facing. I feel almost like a true WW2 CO

[Slappy]

Actually, I think that playing this as the russians would be a breeze.

Here's why:

~70% of the Axis player's points need to come from exiting the trucks. Remember, those are Elite trucks, and he paid (39 * 6 = 234pts) for those, double if they don't exit.

A soviet ATR or MG can take down a truck at 300m in one turn easy.

If the Soviets can remain in cover until the trucks show up, he can bag those and be assured a draw at worst.

If he can keep up a 1-1 casualty ratio, this goes up to a major victory, even if he dosen't keep the flag (100pt flag by the way).

[Foobar]

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I played this as Germans, vs AI, and just barely pulled out a victory. I thought it was pretty well designed, and the ambush at the bend in the road was devastating. The other thing that the russians have going for them is the 20+ time limit. At some point the German player has to take his chances and opel rush straight through town. So I got a major victory with all the truck points, but I was on a razors edge from being completely blocked out of the village. The German player has to react very quickly when things start going wrong.

[Spanish Bombs]

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Just finished to a draw in the game Windopaene mentioned supra. I was the Russians, and probably used my AT guns up too quickly, and lost my last one with 8 turns left. On to the Molotovs, which were flying left and right, but mostly to no effect. (Question: could a non-lethal top penetration of an open HT be a bug? Seems to me those should all be kills).

He did have a 250/8 that caused 48 :eek: casualties!! Three well placed cannister shots caught squads in the open, and one got two nearly full squads next to each other caused about 14 with one shot.

I probably tried to move too much near the end when I ran out of ATG rounds. I also spread out a little much at set up, hoping to blunt his infantry early and concentrate on the vehicles. That worked, actually, but the superior firepower of his HTs did hard work in the late turns. I'm fortunate to have taken out his second 250/8 early, before it loosed it's cannister.

I liked this scenario a lot, in part because the mix of units and map conditions portrayed a partisan action very effectively. Also because I was able to play with tons of new forces.

[MrSpkr]

Played this one at the Demo, and am now playing it against dalem.

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As the German, your job is to exit those units! Keep them safe and for goodness sake, don't drive them within 20m of a treeline until you are reasonably sure it is safe to so do.

The partisans get an incredible bonus to their hiding ability. Unless the partisan unit moves, you will not see it until it opens fire. At the demo, I managed to wax two trucks, a kubelwagen and shock a halftrack inside of 15 seconds when my opponent got too close to one of my platoons hidden in the treeline.

One thing that worked reasonably well against me was an all out rush for the exit edge by the armored cars. They go so fast that unless the Partisans can quickly hit them and knock them out (hard to do), they will make it.

As to the other guys, well, stick together, keep moving, and suppress the heck out of anything that you see shooting at you.

Best of luck!

Steve

[demoss]

[VERY MINOR SPOILERS]

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I tried this one last night as the Germans vs. AI. What a bloodbath. I lost a lot of the lighter vehicles (basically only the 251/1s survived from the original vehicles), but nearly wiped out the partisans, who surrendered around turn 19 having lost 7 out of every 8 men. Only a major victory, probably mostly because I misjudged the spatial extent of the ambush and got a couple trucks killed.

I found that deploying the panzergrenadiers right at the treeline almost on top of the enemy where applicable and using "assault" as the disembark order worked great; none of them were hurt until later on as the partisans concentrated and started to outnumber my men locally, and even then only a few wounds were suffered among the infantry in spite of 10-15 turns of constant fighting in the woods - and as an added bonus, the 251/1s racked up some serious casualties. Dropping off the HMG in the rough near the bend in the road before the firing started was probably also helpful - it can see almost EVERYTHING from there.

It was a fun, quick scenario, but I don't expect a lot of replay value - I can't see playing it again more than MAYBE once from the partisan side; it might be interesting to try the ambush in a different location to try to neutralize some of the Germans' advantages.

[Frunze]

I've played this both ways against the AI, and I think this one's two-player only. The AI can't handle the Germans because it doesn't quite get the whole exit-zone concept, and it can't handle the Russians because - well, it just can't. I wish I'd waited on this one 'til I lined up to play it two-player.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

I'm currently in a middle of a PBEM against a friend, new to CMBB but playing CMBO.

I play the Partisans, turn is 12 now, and I think I'm going to win.

We played "double blind", no one of us played the scenario before, so he didn't grasp the situation : the objective is to EXIT, and he spent too much time trying to fight the partisans here and there.

As others said, the main idea as Russian is to ambush as much as possible, kill HTs with ATRs, go blodly against HT and ACs with Molotovs, and run from the Uber PzII .

It's hard for the German to assess properly the situation on the first go, as running blindly to the exit is not a very good idea either...

So IMHO a slightly pro-Russian situation on a double blind PBEM. On a second try maybe Germans have a good chance to win.

And overall a very good, fun and tense scenario, without Ubertanks and rewarding good tactics and courage

[xerxes]

Heh, it's true, in this one the PzII is UBER and the partisans better stay clear of the invulnerable beast.