Bren Tripods Redux

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Aunty Jack:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Slapdragon:

OK Aunty Jack, now I understand why you are seemingly coming from left field with this, you have not read his sentence:

That is extremely presumptuous of you Slapdragon, considering that it has been me, not you, pointing out that it is very obvious that you not I who has not read his message properly. I have pointed out, what, twice now that you failed to read his message properly. Again, I stand by my comment, you have not read or comprehended what he said.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />My Dad remembers using one on the beaches of Sicily in the AA role (1943). He was in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders and was part of a 'beach-brick' for clearing obstacles, covering landings of supplies, etc.

The man's job on the beach was doing the above tasks, of which the Bren may or may not have been of use (not stated). It was used in the AA role on a tripod.

</font>

[Traject0ry]

Dear John,

(Always wanted to start one post like that...)

As the rest of us are mere mortals and restricted to two grandads =) there is no way for us to check facts about every aspect concerning WWII...

But seriously I must admit that my own sources are not THAT accurate as stated earlier in one of my posts (if I recall) and several references has been made that I am bound to expect the worst case in every scenario (it is this thing about war - something makes me feel unsafe) so most people will always find my text somewhat exaggerating.

Your sources seem to be okay and I trust that everyone posting here will keep your opinion in higher regard than mine (a mere junior member).

Besides you must be one of the few who actually bother to read everything posted on this list. Man I hope they pay you good...

Then to the rest of you stubborn Bren(tripod)men...

As it is however the conversation keeps on going and if anyone gets his/her feelings hurt that is purely unintentional coincidence (at least from my part) which I regret on the behalf of the poor bassie taking all this sooooo seriously.

To make posting this reasonable I'd like to sum up this tripod thing however:

1) Thus those posting on this list are more or less convinced that not only Bren tripods existed but were also used by troops during WWII.

2) The tripod was used for long-range firing from prepared positions by the troops (ofcourse there would have been men who decided to use it during hectic attacks but we are trying to reason within the limits of CM:BO which luckily leaves Rambos out from simulation).

3) It was more often used for AA work but even then the material clearly shows that it was not often used and certainly not in crucial role in several battles (such stories would have survived for mere 60 years easily).

4) As there is a proper reason NOT to model Bren tripod in the game (it did not have that much meaning in battlefield anyway + it would simply turn this conversation to another stupid non-mattering tidbit that was left out of the game even if it would be added this very second + we would have to stop flaming each other on this subject) there is no reason to keep up this quarrel for a minute longer (though I must admit

that I enjoy it...) than it has already lasted.

Hmmm... my tone was not intended to be this aggressive - well at least I can feel more

flames headed in this direction. Better get my barbeque out of the garage....

[Enoch]

I must state my objection to BTS: Seanachai is obviously trying to highjack this thread. As such, he should be given 50 lashes with a Cess laden noodle mounted on a tripod.

[Aunty Jack]

I take it therefore Slapdragon that you admit your error in making assumptions about what others have written?

I also must assume from your answer that you do not know what a CES is.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John D Salt:

[snips]

The Chatellerault and the Chauchat are quite different weapons.

You are correct. But I never suggested they were the same weapon if you read the above paragraph. I merely pointed out that the Chauchat, and early AR, was itself based on the Browning gas mechanism.</font>

[flamingknives]

Oh for pete's sake Aunty Jack!

By this point it's probably irrelevant whether Slapdragon knows what a CES is.

I don't.

Would you mind putting me out of my irritation and telling the whole board.

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Oh for pete's sake Aunty Jack!

By this point it's probably irrelevant whether Slapdragon knows what a CES is.

I don't.

Would you mind putting me out of my irritation and telling the whole board.

Actually we went into the whole concept of CES a long time ago on this same thread, it was a red herring that has nothing to do with the use of the weapon. Complete equipment schedule means nothing for Bren gun use, because it was not used, merely issued and like I said, carried in the turcks. We could just as easily say, "well Aunty Jack, because you don't know about the grain count of the Cal. 30 M2 bullet's powder supply, you cannot talk about if the bullet was able to penetrate a pine board.

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Aunty Jack:

I take it therefore Slapdragon that you admit your error in making assumptions about what others have written?

I also must assume from your answer that you do not know what a CES is.

Please read my previous comments on this.

[flamingknives]

Ah, that's what CES means.

I think I have to go with Slapdragon here, at least for the point he's making but pehaps not the way he's making it....

POINT: The Bren gun was issued with a tripod.

Fine, I've got no arguments with that.

POINT: Missing it out of the British/Commonwealth force choices spoils the game.

Not really. If you want a tripod mounted 0.303 MG, buy a Vickers.

I really don't think that the ommission of one piece of kit is really a problem, as there are a large number of other, more important pieces of equipment missing.

[Aunty Jack]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

Who suggested it does? Perhaps you need to understand what a CES is, Slapdragon. You appear to be using the term in one of the two ways it can be utilised and not in the way I am using it.

Yes, you are using the lesser of the two meanings for the term. Perhaps you'd care to have a shot at defining it?

You might like also to consider that if an item is part of unit war establishment, what is to prevent it being utilised? Perhaps instead of concentrating upon the issue of use, you should recognise that others are concentrating upon the issue of availability?

Wrong. Please, Slapdragon, refrain from introducing red herrings in the manner you're prone to and speak to the point. I am again, forced to note that there is no apology for or acknowledgement of the mistakes you made in your previous messages, concerning Donald's story. Why?

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Enoch:

I must state my objection to BTS: Seanachai is obviously trying to highjack this thread. As such, he should be given 50 lashes with a Cess laden noodle mounted on a tripod.

My most cryptic and inane remark has been at least as relevant to the topic as 90% of the posts here. You cannot hijack a derailed train. Well, you can, but you can't take it very far.

This thread currently seems to focus on the fact that Aunty Jack has the CES safely stowed in a steel cannister. Rather than explaining the significance of the CES, or it's relevance to this topic, it is apparently the one piece of an ancient prophecy needed by Slapdragon to fulfill his dreams of world domination, and Aunty Jack is taunting Slappy with the knowledge that it will never be his.

As taunting goes, it's rather lackluster.

Still, if keeping it out of Slapdragon's hands means foiling his rise to Empire, than I suppose the rest of us can put up with repeated references to it as being somehow relevant without ever making clear what that relevance is.

Don't let him trick it out of you, Aunty Jack! Remember, no matter how many references he may give as to knowing what it is, he clearly still doesn't understand how it relates to Bren Tripods! Don't go mad in your taunting and supply him with that final key to the puzzle!

You're our last hope!

(if Slapdragon triumphs, I'm told my role in the New World Order will be touring the country lecturing school children on the dangers of 'Off Topic Threads', and leading them in sing-songs glorifying our new leader)

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Aunty Jack:

Yes, you are using the lesser of the two meanings for the term. Perhaps you'd care to have a shot at defining it?

You might like also to consider that if an item is part of unit war establishment, what is to prevent it being utilised? Perhaps instead of concentrating upon the issue of use, you should recognise that others are concentrating upon the issue of availability?

This is incorrect thinking. Following this argument and trying on the red herring of issue for size does not in any way prove an item was used, just as gas masks, poison gas, and many other items of military equipment. Please reread Steve's comment on this earlier.

Basically, you must prove that an item was:

1) Existed

2) Possessed

3) Used (and how it was used because a General's model .45 was used, but not in a way that would cause it to show up in CM.

4) Used extensively enough to bother with.

5) Effective in game terms (in other words, if it does not change the effect of the game in any way, then there may be better things to worry about).

Otherwise, the issue is a nonstarter. Please, CES is so far down the list and was discussed so long ago that it is not an issue. If you have data that it was used commonly at the front and had a detectable difference in FP please present it Aunty Jack.

[ April 21, 2002, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Slapdragon ]

[Slapdragon]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

(if Slapdragon triumphs, I'm told my role in the New World Order will be touring the country lecturing school children on the dangers of 'Off Topic Threads', and leading them in sing-songs glorifying our new leader)

Eitther that or circus clown inspector, I have not decided which yet.

[Joe Shaw]

I want to know when we're going to get off this inane issue and talk about something REALLY important ... STEN GUN TRIPODS!

Joe

[Michael Emrys]

And dental floss! Why hasn't there been a 1,000-post thread on the importance of dental floss on the Allied Victory? I'll tell you why: Because dental floss was a British invention and this Board is ruled by an anti-British conspiracy! That's why!

QED.

Michael

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Seanachai:

(if Slapdragon triumphs, I'm told my role in the New World Order will be touring the country lecturing school children on the dangers of 'Off Topic Threads', and leading them in sing-songs glorifying our new leader)

Either that or circus clown inspector, I have not decided which yet.</font>

[Panzer Leader]

You appear to be using the term in one of the two ways it can be utilised and not in the way I am using it.

Ha ha ha! Ban me if you have to Steve, but that has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. OK, ONE of the silliest things...

Tell me, how many way are there to use the term "GET A GRIP?"

[Edited because, unlike real life where you walk away and then think of something you should have said, here on the ol' board you can hop right back to where you were and blurt it out like your brain was that fast all along.]

[ April 21, 2002, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: Panzer Leader ]

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Enoch:

I must state my objection to BTS: Seanachai is obviously trying to highjack this thread. As such, he should be given 50 lashes with a Cess laden noodle mounted on a tripod.

My most cryptic and inane remark has been at least as relevant to the topic as 90% of the posts here. You cannot hijack a derailed train. Well, you can, but you can't take it very far.

This thread currently seems to focus on the fact that Aunty Jack has the CES safely stowed in a steel cannister. Rather than explaining the significance of the CES, or it's relevance to this topic, it is apparently the one piece of an ancient prophecy needed by Slapdragon to fulfill his dreams of world domination, and Aunty Jack is taunting Slappy with the knowledge that it will never be his.

As taunting goes, it's rather lackluster.

Still, if keeping it out of Slapdragon's hands means foiling his rise to Empire, than I suppose the rest of us can put up with repeated references to it as being somehow relevant without ever making clear what that relevance is.

Don't let him trick it out of you, Aunty Jack! Remember, no matter how many references he may give as to knowing what it is, he clearly still doesn't understand how it relates to Bren Tripods! Don't go mad in your taunting and supply him with that final key to the puzzle!

You're our last hope!

(if Slapdragon triumphs, I'm told my role in the New World Order will be touring the country lecturing school children on the dangers of 'Off Topic Threads', and leading them in sing-songs glorifying our new leader)</font>

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Ah, Seanachai, you and I have come full circle, my old friend. We have tasted battle on the same field (well, ok, about 200 rounds of smoke, but still...) and now we will rule the BTS BBS as father and son....

Good lord, how immature can an Australian get? "I know what CES means and you don't so nyaah nyaah nyahh."

What inspired dialogue.

Yes, Grog Dorosh, our time has come. They posture. They mewl. They have become weak, and worthless.

What better time to forge a union of Grog and Cesspool, and sweep them forever into the toilet of history?

Do they not long for it? Does not their every post cry out for the lash of satire and knowledge, equally combined, to drive them to their knees in an ecstasy of abasement?

Here, perched on the brink of CMBB we see how their feuds, their self-serving arrogance, and their dark fantasies have weakened them, diminished them, and made them slaves to their own petty needs.

Is this not how Rome fell? In Aunty Jack, can we not see a hissing Cassius? In his arrogance and pomp, can we not see Slapdragon draping himself in purple, and thinking to himself 'Caesar'? How long before the Board must suffer Nero? Caligula?

Shall we two sit by, and watch the degradation of what was once great?! Now let us seek our time, and make our pact to rule these weaklings, these straw men with their petty angers and their poisoned dreams!

Rally you those Grogs who yet remain true, above base intrigues, untouched by vendetta, undemeaned by all that is unseemly and low.

And I, I will bring to our cause the raw and unruly forces of the barbarian Cesspool, whose energies are not yet spent, not diluted with endless and sneering self-congratulation from Grogs who've given over any love of Truth or Forum.

For the Peng Challengers strain against these bonds of propriety, these hollow courtesies, these mincing forms of observance that they have made due with all this time. But their lust for battle, to be made free of all such restraint, remains unslaked. If we but give the word and let slip their chains, like Berli's Hell Hound that guards the gates of the 'Pool, their chaos shall run forth, and snatch to madness all that the Poseurs would maintain.

When Chaos, unleashed, has run it's course, and the mean and and useless have been destroyed in the rush of Cess, then might your rallied Grogs, firm of purpose, well-spoken, and reasonable, reassert the ancient verities, and redeem the Forum.

Then shall you and I, smiling, and most Canadian-like in our self-effacement, receive the accolades of the folk. And, our enemies destroyed, our brows wreathed with wise counsel and on our lips the words 'it was but needed, it was but right', then shall we be almighty, and, without seeming to, so shall we rule.

My hand upon it, Grog Dorosh!

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

The main point here that no one has addressed (and please...at this point, don't bother)...

ROFLOL!!!

Thank you, Michael. For those of us still trying to keep a grip on our sanity, that was a boon.

Michael

P.S. In recognition of your heroic defense of the Macleod Trail, it is my very distinct pleasure and honor to inform you that a medal is being stuck at this very moment to be awarded on the Queen's next birthday. Congratulations!

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

Is this not how Rome fell? In Aunty Jack, can we not see a hissing Cassius? In his arrogance and pomp, can we not see Slapdragon draping himself in purple, and thinking to himself 'Caesar'? How long before the Board must suffer Nero? Caligula?

You are an American, so I shall go lightly on you, since history to someone from your trailer park probably only started when the new Drive-Thru Wendy's opened last year.

Having said that, you do realise that Rome happily continued to hang around for another 400-500 years after the dodgy characters you mention (and that is just West Rome, East Rome/Byzantium made it through another 1300-1400 years), most of the time even without taxes, and still a marvel of civilisation? Well do you?! You Sir, fancying your chances of the Peng Thread taking over the board by allying itself with some 2nd rate uniform grog are about as realistic in your expectations as the Gauls were coming along to ravage Rome in 390 BC. Wait 340 years, and Caesar in 52BC paid it back to them, interest and all, leading to the establishment of the proud French surrender-monkey tradition. Still, go to France these days, and they will claim never to have heard of 'that Alesia'.

One might even argue that the true height of the Roman Empire was only reached after the squabbles of the first century AD - but then again, I am sure you would not know Marcus Aurelius or Hadrian if they came along and bit you in the arse. More the fool you are. I look forward to continued world (well, board) domination by the grogs, arguing about how the absence of modelling Michael's sewing kit in TacOps fundamentally undermines the veracity of that simulation.

Now go and hang your head in shame. I doubt you would make a good circus clown, and nobody should let a shady character of your ilk close to kids anyway. Shoo.

[Michael Emrys]

You have to admit he does have a nice turn of phrase though...at least as long as he doesn't attempt poetry [shudder].

Michael

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

How long before the Board must suffer Nero? Caligula?

Can I take the part of Caligula? I promise to wear a toga every time I enter the forum.

Regards

Jim R.

[Panzer Leader]

Hey Andreas, that wasn't in 'Gladiator'!?!?

[Brian]

Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann:

Originally posted by Seanachai:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />How long before the Board must suffer Nero? Caligula?

Can I take the part of Caligula? I promise to wear a toga every time I enter the forum.

Regards

Jim R.</font>