flamethrowers

[Alex heritage]

I have never been able to utilize flamethrowers effectivly they need to get so close to be effective. I think I can use every other unit well except this one (i'm talking about the flamers troops carry not vehicle mounted ones) please help I want to play with fire

(I shouldn't really 2 weeks ago i set my foot on fire for 'bout 20 seconds lol it hurt like HELL sob)

[Schugger]

You are definately not the only one

There have been many discussions about FT units and the best way to use them.

In short: They are much easier to use in a defensive role and tend to die quickly if used in an attack as anyone with LOS to an enemy FT unit switches target to it.

Check the following threads:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000055

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000375

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=000454

[Warmaker]

Portable FT units are a little tricky to use but can pay off big time w/ practice. First and foremost, only with the most extreme of luck, do not use FT teams by themselves. They fall in the support section remember? Don't put them in the frontline/advancing units, just somewhere behind them. Once a dug in enemy emplacement has been found, have available units suppress them with everything and the kitchen sink. While they're pinned this is the time to send the FT team to burn them out and watch them run. No hand to hand/close assaults necessary for your grunts.

Due to the slow nature of your FT teams, you may want to invest in a cheap transport to zip them to "hotspots" during the battle. Jeeps/Kubelwagens are good for this but HTs are much better and can give additional MG suppression.

Just remember, suppress the enemy first before sending the FT in to maximize their chances of survival.

[BloodyBucket]

One of the hidden virtues of a flamethrower team is the fact that they draw fire like a freaking magnet. This takes the heat off your other units in a close assault situation (no pun intended).

I look on them in the attack like a lottery ticket. I try not to count on them but when it pays off it is spectacular. The aforementioned threads and the advice given in this thread are spot on for using flame teams. Good luck.

[Cull]

Bloodybucket is right on. My sentiments exactly.

[Mannheim Tanker]

I've also found them to be very effective when used near the enemy - and not directly on them. For example, you can set some nearby cover on fire, and it acts like an instant minefield: you deny the enemy the use of that cover.

[rleete]

Ahhh, Tanker, ya beat me to it. That's by far the best usage I have found, other than flushing units out of buildings. Just sneak up from the back, and they run out towards your cover squads. Toasted or shot are the options.

[BloodyBucket]

They are also great for the smokescreen that never goes away or just denying terrain to all concerned, although this sort of thing is best discussed with your opponent ahead of time, lest the cry of "Gamey Tactics!" be heard.

Off topic, but doesn't a little teeny part of you wish that when a flame team bought it there was a chance that they would explode? I know , but it would be fun :eek: !

[MrSpkr]

They are difficult to use.

One good use, though, on defense, is to have them ambush from cover. They should get at least a shot or two off before buying it.

Learned this teh hardway when the AI did it to me. Lost half a squad instantly. However, I got revenge about 60 seconds later because the stupid AI had set the FT team up in a house. The house caught on fire, and the FT team ran out into a storm of German bullets!

MrSpkr

[Warmaker]

Another tip I like to do on the defense, particularly defending against the onslaught of an Assault. Get a vehicle mounted FT. Next burn any expected areas where you think the enemy will use as cover/approach. Or you can start burning everything in an objective area. Example is to start burning as many buildings in a town/village as much as possible. Crazy you say? There's method to this madness. If you've set your remaining defenses properly with TRPs in the objective you can turn it into a deathtrap since their cover is all set afire. TRPs make your units more lethal and arrival time of arty is cut drastically.

The uses of FT teams are only limited by your crazy imagination!

[nedlam]

I'd like to see them be able to run short distances with a severe penalty of fatigue afterwards. This would make them more effective in the roll of supporting an assault (it would also help them get outta dodge in the defense).

I've had marginal success with these units mostly when I've used them in a mop up roll, well after the battle is over and I'm basically sticking it too the enemy (AI or real person).

Nedlam

[Panther G]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BloodyBucket:

They are also great for the smokescreen that never goes away or just denying terrain to all concerned, although this sort of thing is best discussed with your opponent ahead of time, lest the cry of "Gamey Tactics!" be heard.

!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely! This and defensive positions are about all I use them for.

Panther G

[Jeff Hays]

If you want to get a feel for a flamethrower, just put a welding acetylene bottle on your back and hike around with it on. Did I say total miscomfort? Also dont forget you need a buddy with you to turn it on, blend the mixture if so, and light it. Then try doing this while running. then hope to god you dont burn yourself with the pilot light or drip fuel on you burning you. then also you are so high from the fumes that you forget why you did this in the first place.

[Warmaker]

JeffHays, you forgot another important ingredient for being a flamethrower... praying to God that you don't get hit in any way.

[Radar]

All of that isn't enough reason to forbid a short sprint. The game play is abstracted, with the unit icon showing an area of around 20m or so. Why can't a team sprint for one turn or two to show a spreading of the operationa area and be 'tired or weary' to close up this gap?

[nedlam]

I'm not asking my flamethrower team to run the 40 in 4.2. All I want is a little effort to get out of dodge or into the fight quicker than they do now.

BTW you put a welding acetylene bottle on my back and then tell me I have to get out of the woods as fast as possible or someone is going to kill me, I might not break any land speed records but watch how fast I run!

[Jeff Hays]

I would pay good money to see you run with an acetylene tank on your back!!! hahahaha, I can see your point and maybe a future feature might be something called "dash" or "run like hell".

[nedlam]

Hehehe, MOVE, SNEAK, RUN, GET THE HELL OUTTA DODGE commands.

In all seriousness, they wouldn't need a ne command. Just make the unit exausted or weary after they run 50 yards? 100 yards? 200 yards? I dunno. Where is that acetylene bottle? I'll run some tests.

Nedlam

[MOS was 71331]

In a recent PBEM game, I was the German player defending a village with a Pioneer platoon. I had a flamethrower in a foxhole next to a small light building. The Brit player moved a squad and a platoon leader team into the building at the end of a turn.

On the following turn, my flamethrower team fired EIGHT of its nine bursts into the building, alternately aiming at the Brit squad and the platoon leader team. The Brit squad broke, ran out of the building and then back in, but it took only THREE casualties. The platoon leader team didn't run out of the building and took ONE casualty. The building did catch fire. (I attributed all the two unit's casualties to the flamethrower, but some of the casualties might have been taken before entering the building. It was late in the game.)

I was really disappointed with that result. I didn't see how the set up could have been improved. I inflicted at most four casualties, one for every two shots by the flamethrower. I was expecting to destroy the Brit units in the building -- unless they killed the FT team before it could fire.

I started another thread about this incident a few weeks ago. A few of the people responding said I had expected too much and that the results I experienced were typical.

[Alex heritage]

i think everyone better stop answering this thread. Too many people have told me the flamers useless and i dont like gamey tactics. when i get the full game I just wont use flamers. (to anyone in England.. how long did ure game take to arrive I've been waiting a week and a half now and i'm fairly pissed off) :mad:

[JAK]

Don't get pissed over 1 and a half weeks arrival time Alex, I lived within 3 states of BTS and it took me 8 days including the weekend for my copy to arrive. Hope this helps, and be paticent its well worth the time it takes to ship!

Jake

[MrSpkr]

MOS, don't be too diappointed. After all, your target was in a building -- the Flamethrower cant' hurt anyone it can't reach.

If you get a shot at someone in the open, a wheatfield, or scattered trees, you will do much better. Besides, the cool thing about flamethrowers is panicking the enemy into running into the open, where supporting squads can cut them down.

MrSpkr

[Warmaker]

What flamethrowers do to morale and such IMO is more important than the casualties caused. Even if the target(s) are in heavy buildings they will stop what they're doing and get pinned. Another blast and some are sure to run. Even the most experienced/disciplined troops will break. Casualties are nice bonus though, but rooting out a nest of well entrenched defenders with a few blasts is MUCH more effective than having a many tank/gun rounds and tons of small-arms ammunition expended on a strong defensive position.

[MrSpkr]

I absolutely agree, Warmaker. Particularly in village or urban settings, if you can get a FT team up near the action, you can force the enemy into the open simply by torching the building they are in (preferably from a blind side, if possiblem to keep you FT alive).

The bad guys will rout out of the building and (hopefully) right into one of your firelanes.

I particulalry like FT teams in heavy fog scenarios. Place them a little behind your main body in the advance. Your scouts will find the enemy. Your main body will pin the enemy. Then, your FT's can BURN the enemy.

MrSpkr

[Warmaker]

MrSpkr, you bring up another thing that just popped into my mind. Limited visibility conditions other than rain I would think are great times to deploy infantry held FTs. With shorter engagement ranges you have less to worry about getting those guys picked off from a stand off tank/gun/HMG from hundreds of meters away. Have others find the targets and moving the FTs up to the fight becomes less risky with shorter LOS.

Seems FT teams (man or vehicle mounted) have become my favored weapon lately. For the Germans I love the SPW 251/16 since it is available practically any time setting and moves fairly fast. In addition it has the MGs for cover/suppression. I'd prefer to have the Flammpanzer '38t, but that's not available all the time.

I have yet to try the Allies' side of FT forces. Seems the Churchill version seems VERY attractive and brutal. The Wasp also has a better range than German versions (from the stats of the wrecks I've seen).

Is CM2 gonna have other Flammpanzer variants? I seem to recall some PzKpfw III's converted into the flamethrower role. The turret would be a nice change to German players compared to CMBO. The Soviets will of course probably have T-34's fitted for this role too.