the hummel and the 150mm Inf Gun

[Chad Harrison]

okay, lets come clean. who loves these weapons? has anyone ever been on the other end of the barrel? i have, and its never been good. heres what each is:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>HUMMEL:the hummel is a SP gun, with the 150mm field howitzer. is has a price tag of 80pts for regular crew, and comes with 18 rounds. each round brings a blast of 200! (for comparison, the big allied 105mm has a blast of 77). with one round, i have seen light buildings rubble, and even heavy small buildings! its weakness is that it has a slow ROF, no MG, little ammo, and very light ammo (vulnerable to .50cal MG)

<LI>150mm INFANTRY GUN: this infantry gun has a price tag of 94 points (the 75mm Inf. Gun is 33) and has a little smaller of a shell that only does a blast of 164 (only ). but, this one comes with 50 rounds of HE, HEAT, and smoke which gives you a lot more punch. the gun shield gives limited extra protection from direct MG/small arms fire. its weak point is that its a gun, and once located and esp. identified, just count down until the artillery starts falling. whenever i have used them, they seem to be artillery magnets.

do you use them? success stories?

i have KO two light vehicles that where close to each other with one shot! thats always fun to watch. the inf. gun can hold off the enemy for a while, esp. if a AT gun is also nearby to keep at bay the tanks.

but why dont we see more of them?

[JasonC]

Note that the HEAT rounds for the 150 SiG will penetrate most allied tanks from the front, with ease. And they generally come with a few. The ordinary HE round will KO light armor. It doesn't have the best accuracy at long range because of the low velocity of the shell, but at common CM ranges that hardly matters. It can thus be used as a substitute for PAK in a small enough fight, where the ammo will hold out. Its only downsides are cost per gun, and vunerability to indirect fire once spotted.

The Hummel requires care to use, because it is large, poorly armored, and slow shooting. But of course it moves, unlike the SiG, and it costs less. Incidentally, use of them in the front lines in 1s and 2s is not as gamey as you might think, despite the fact that Hummels per se were rarely used on the front line. The reason is that various SP 150mm guns - many based on the SiG - were used, but aren't including in CM. The Hummel is a good enough approximation. Many mobile divisions (Panzergrenadier that is) had 6 such "assault guns" in each infantry regiment's cannon company, often farmed out 2 per battalion to support an attack. If you want to simulate an armor "Brummbar", though, the StuH is probably a better approximation.

[ 08-17-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[Bog]

Hehe, I remember when I played a QB with computer picked forces at night, and I got a Hummel with the force selection. Once our infantry found each other, I was doing pretty well, using the Hummel to totally destroy entire squads. Until one squad ran right up to the Hummel, like 9 meters away. The Hummel depressed it's gun fully and fired. KA-BOOM! Result: Allied squad dead, and the Hummel explodes in a nasty fireball!

[eba]

Hummels are great. Just be sure to let someone else find the targets first. Hummels fire too slowly and have armor too thin to go searching for targets. Once you have a target, though, they can finish it off with only a round or two.

[xerxes]

I prefer the wespe. 58 pts for regular crew. 77pt blast, ~29 rounds. Just have to be careful with it.

- xerxes

[JasonC]

Oh, if you'll settle for 105mm, then the StuH is a better choice than the Wespe. For 25 more points you get more shells, 2 MGs, a close defense system, ability to carry units, a closed top, higher ROF, armor proof against 50 cals and from the front against 37mm. Much more survivable used the same way; that and the better ammo will usually mean far more shots fired.

But the real point of Hummels is the increase in effect of 150mm over 105mm HE. It is vast...

[Sergeant Saunders]

I have always loved the Hummel, since my old "Panzerblitz" days.

Question: since we are talking SPG here. Can the Hummel for instance fire indirect? If so how? It's got that lovely 150mm gun that I would love to fire over the hill so not to expose vehical, but can't figure out how. :confused:

[Cybeq]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sergeant Saunders:

I have always loved the Hummel, since my old "Panzerblitz" days.

Question: since we are talking SPG here. Can the Hummel for instance fire indirect? If so how? It's got that lovely 150mm gun that I would love to fire over the hill so not to expose vehical, but can't figure out how. :confused:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, yes. You have discovered one of my three complaints about Combat Mission. You CANNOT fire your SPA in an indirect mode. That's just wrong. Although, technically your FO's could be calling in arty fired from SPA.

[Tripps]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

[QB]

Hummel, yeah, love the beast, but find the light armour protection a big minus, which is a shame, i usually take them Stugs

every now and then i'll take them to watch the booms and ensuring chaos

the 150 i like to have one, a field gun is a must if you ask me, esp in city/town missions, a DF HE gun certainly causes havoc... just get rdy to move the sucker after a turn or so, or take several 75's, scattered, he canna get em all!

[xerxes]

I love the Stugs for some heavy duty infantry support. The 105 Stugs cost 99 vs 58 for the wespe, a pretty big cost differential.

I'm just more nervous about the Hummel because it dies just as easily as the Wespe. Try as I might, I have a bad habit of losing my tanks and SPs.

If you run the universal CM force allocation loss ratio equation:

X + Y - X = Y

Z - Z = 0

substituting

58(wespe) + 30 (inf squad) - Wespe = 30 (inf squad)

80(Hummel) - 80(Hummel) = 0

30(inf squad) > 0

j/k

- xerxes

[Sergeant Saunders]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cybeq:

Ah, yes. You have discovered one of my three complaints about Combat Mission. You CANNOT fire your SPA in an indirect mode. That's just wrong. Although, technically your FO's could be calling in arty fired from SPA.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I'll bite! What are the other two of your three complaints about Combat Mission?

[JasonC]

Only one problem Xerxes. The StuH doesn't cost 99 points. It costs 79 points - or 83 if you want the late model with a second MG and the close defense system. Take one less schreck, 81mm mortar, or HMG team. The extra shells you get off from the 105, not to mention the MGs, will more than make up for one of those. Because 50 cals, artillery barrages, or M-8s and Stuarts from the front, will not KO the StuH on you.

[manchildstein (ii)]

i tend to use 75mm sIGs in qbs.

it seems like they would have been fairly common compared to the 150s.

i figure a 75mm ig is kind of like a 'bread and butter' unit.

andy

[Gremlin]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Its only downsides are cost per gun, and vunerability to indirect fire once spotted. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rather slow ROF too.

[xerxes]

Ack, I missed that one JasonC, you have a very good point. I agree, the StuH(early or late) is a much better buy at 79 pts then the wespe. I was thinking of the sturms.

- xerxes

[Chad Harrison]

a good point was made above about the better armour/MG's/close defense system/and ammo of the StuH 42. i suppose what would determin which would be better for you is how you use you SP guns and how bold you want to be with them.

when i purchase a hummel/wespe, i generally use them as the 600m support weapon, were the weaknesses are minimal. if your in closer terrain, all towed guns/SP guns will usually do nothing good the entire game, or wreak havoc for one or two turns, and then sit idle for the rest of the game.

im starting to think that the best use for guns over 75mm are for village/town battles, or when you are attacking. in ME, it seems to me better have all around verhicles (aka, sherman) which can perform a number of roles. good comments and tactics above though!

[xerxes]

For a city block buster, the Hummel is certainly a great choice. You can identify your targets ahead of time and setup "keyholes" that minimize danger to your SPA.

- xerxes

[Marlow]

My question is why do the Jerries get to have all the fun? I want my M12.

[Chad Harrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marlow:

My question is why do the Jerries get to have all the fun? I want my M12.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

amen to that! i was reading one of ambroses books and he talked about how a company was assigned to assult a number of bunkers. as the CO tried to develop a plan, a M12 pulled up and asked where the bunkers were. they bore sighted it down the barrel and put one round onto each bunker. the company then walked up to each bunker to find the men inside either dead or KO.

wheres our baby! and the m16!

[Redwolf]

A few other points:

The 150mm infantry gun drives infantry out of foxholes much faster than the 150mm howitzer in the Hummel. Remember that the blast value is just an abstraction for the player, CMBO calculates with finer gradiances of shrapnel effect etc. Lets to be desired, though, since BTS doesn't tell enough details (I found this one by trying). And the British 95mm. should have the same effect, but doesn't in CMBO.

The higher blast applies straight when knocking down buildings.

The infantry guns are easier to spot that comparable higher velocity guns.

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Silvio Manuel]

I also prefer StuH at

79 pts. early

83 pts. late with their decent armor

vs.

58 pts Wespe with its low ROF and no MGs...unless I think my opponent won't be able to kill it with .50cal...maybe good for a village/city map with its narrow LOS.

[Silvio Manuel]

I also prefer StuH at

79 pts. early

83 pts. late with their decent armor

vs.

58 pts Wespe with its low ROF and no MGs...unless I think my opponent won't be able to kill it with .50cal...maybe good for a village/city map with its narrow LOS.

[tiborhead]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bog:

Hehe, I remember when I played a QB with computer picked forces at night, and I got a Hummel with the force selection. Once our infantry found each other, I was doing pretty well, using the Hummel to totally destroy entire squads. Until one squad ran right up to the Hummel, like 9 meters away. The Hummel depressed it's gun fully and fired. KA-BOOM! Result: Allied squad dead, and the Hummel explodes in a nasty fireball! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off let me say I love Hummels.

I had almost the same thing happen once a long time ago. It was night, and my Hummel was covering the advance of ane of my inf platoons. all of a sudden, a British paratroop sguad shows up awfuly close to me.

The Hummel turns and fires, routing the Brit squad, killing all but a few guys in one of my squads, and blowing itself to bits as well.

"Never bring a Hummel to a night fight" I always say.

As for the 150mm Inf. gun, I love those things too. I once had one of 'em hold up an entire (almost) company attack. Of course it was supplemented with MGs and 1 75mm Inf. gun, but the 150 did most of the work until an arty round took it out.

[Cybeq]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sergeant Saunders:

OK, I'll bite! What are the other two of your three complaints about Combat Mission?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Mortar carriers have to fire in direct mode. It sure would be cool to have a spotter for those bad boys.

2. There is no "unit roster" (a la Steel Panthers) available.

Other than that I have no complaints about Combat Mission

[gredeker]

I've only tried Hummels a couple of times, and mine always seemed to die quickly from an enemy .50 cal MG. Thus, I don't buy it anymore. I much prefer the StuH becuase of the armor, secondary MG armament, and limited HEAT anti-tank ability.