CMBO and CMBB for Mac OS X

[davo02]

This is my first post on this forum, and I just wanted to say..

YES, I would definately BUY any CM products for OS X..

I use OS X all the time and it would be great not to have to reboot into OS 9.

dk

[karch]

Originally posted by kmead:

..... Not buying the Mac version of CMBB will send the wrong message as the fewer Mac sales they have on CMBB the less likely they may be to continue to develop for the Mac. ..................

What he said.

(nice post by the way)

[Andreas]

Originally posted by kmead:

This is great news, I have been very worried about this issue as I plug along at home with my G3 400 Lime iMac. Thanks for that info. Big thumbs up!

Never a problem. We aim to please, as they say in the Royal Artillery.

Good post before that one, I fully agree. I guess many people don't understand how BFC works because it is a very unusual and old-fashioned (in a very good sense) approach.

[audiophyle]

Upon hearing about a graphics engine rewrite for the next CM, my spirits were lifted concerning the series. All too often, wargames use their dated engines for many future games, and I was afraid CM may follow the same fate. If they make concrete plans for an OS X release next time, I'll feel better about buying CMBB. This also raises our chances in getting OS X patches for CMBO and CMBB, but I realize that this will take time away from future developments. Even if I do buy it, there are many other potential buyers that will be turned off by the fact that it's not a carbon app. I'm glad that I'm hearing about changes to correct this for future games.

[ July 13, 2002, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: audiophyle ]

[bsoplinger]

I've been running OS X exclusively since almost when it came out, but I'm the odd duck, doing Unix and X-Windows work at home. I was eagerly looking forward to the release of CM:BB thinking I could finally play CM again, not realizing it was mired in the Rave 1.7 that forced the original CM to be played in OS 9. *sigh* a lost sale for battlefront, as I don't need yet another 'have to boot to OS 9 on a machine that really isn't setup to do this anymore."

And its a crying shame, as I loved this game and would dearly love to support them, but not to the tune of buying a piece of software I can't use.

[wodasini88]

The computer graphics group at my college is switching entirely over to OSX now. just wanted to add that in as an example of how OSX is THE macOS. CMBB needs OSX support.

[SpazManOught]

Am I the only Mac user who can get CM to run under OSX? Sure it's in software rendered mode but it works, just select the extensions manger start up from the OSX clasic options menu, disable rave, classic starts up and bingo CMBO under OSX.

Also can't they just find out what Rave extensions don't work and just remove the code that uses them? Sure we might lose transparent walls or something but for the odd quick game it'll be ok.

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by SpazManOught:

Am I the only Mac user who can get CM to run under OSX? Sure it's in software rendered mode but it works, just select the extensions manger start up from the OSX clasic options menu, disable rave, classic starts up and bingo CMBO under OSX.

Also can't they just find out what Rave extensions don't work and just remove the code that uses them? Sure we might lose transparent walls or something but for the odd quick game it'll be ok.

I got it to work before, but why would I have a nice video card and a 17" LCD display if I'm going to play it like that. I might as well go back to my old iMac, no offense.

I will be buying CMBB because as a Mac-only guy (i.e. a beggar when it comes to games) I can't be a chooser. It sucks, but what can we do?

Gyrene

[kmead]

Without a doubt having CMBB running native or in Classic with hardware acceleration would be a great thing and a definite boon to sales. I agree that there will be lost sales as so many computer users are just that, users and not geeks. This I suspect may be somewhat more likely on the part of Mac users than MSW per capita. :confused:

Audiophile:

I hadn't noticed your member number so it stands to reason that you would not be aware of the CM3 and beyond being on a new engine. The CMBB hysteria around here has been intense so little details like that haven't been brought up as much as they used to. CM3 is expected to be the Mediteranean theatre, covering Greece, North Africa and Italy. CM4 will be the early war covering Poland and then the 1940 push across France and the Low Countries. CM 5 is presumed to be a rework of CMBO. Of course things change so who knows. One thing that we can do to ensure that future development is to buy CMBB

I join Gyrene in the beggars can't be choosers category as so few interesting (to me) game titles come out for the Mac. Especially war games that are not FPSs.

What I would truly enjoy is a platoon scale game akin to a game I used to have on my Apple IIe that was a top down. What I would like is effectively view one from CM and a top down Map view showing my units and enemy units both known and expected (from intelligence data) that updates as the scenario develops. Maybe even allows for interactive markups. I will try and flesh out this idea sometime using CMBO, Photoshop and a few of my other tools to make a representation we can all look at. Probably in the fall after bad weather sets in.

[Slapdragon]

Here is something to worry about:

OS-X uses Open GL for graphics acceleration. Microsoft is claiming to have patents which effect Open GL. Of course, they have purchased the foundation graphics patents from ATI, NVidia, and SGI during this most recent market turn down, so it may even be true.

Microsoft is talking about then charging a fee to each user and developer of Open GL, which wont be Open any more. Currently, it seems like this fee, if put into place, would be totally unreachable by any but the best heeled investors. But to help game developers who are in a crunch, Microsoft will offer nice discounts on WinDirectX to worried game designers.

And geuss what only runs on an MS operating system, Direct X or Open GL?

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

Here is something to worry about:

OS-X uses Open GL for graphics acceleration. Microsoft is claiming to have patents which effect Open GL. Of course, they have purchased the foundation graphics patents from ATI, NVidia, and SGI during this most recent market turn down, so it may even be true.

Microsoft is talking about then charging a fee to each user and developer of Open GL, which wont be Open any more. Currently, it seems like this fee, if put into place, would be totally unreachable by any but the best heeled investors. But to help game developers who are in a crunch, Microsoft will offer nice discounts on WinDirectX to worried game designers.

And geuss what only runs on an MS operating system, Direct X or Open GL?

that sounds pretty serious

is there a web site?

Does Apple have a response to this?

-tom w

[jeffsmith]

MS Patent Claims

Time for "Rave 2 the Resurrection"

[ July 14, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: jeffsmith ]

[karch]

Originally posted by bsoplinger:

........*sigh* a lost sale for battlefront, as I don't need yet another 'have to boot to OS 9 on a machine that really isn't setup to do this anymore." .... I loved this game and would dearly love to support them, but not to the tune of buying a piece of software I can't use.

Well, if you like Battlefront and CM. Suck it up and buy the game. By not buying a copy, your vote is saying to BF, "Don't bother developing for Mac's any more". If enough people do that, then there will be NO next version in OSX to buy. Seriously. If no one buys a Mac version, why in hell would they bother to spend the time to make one. As a Mac user, you should have a better feeling for the lack of quality Mac Games and programmers. Here are people developing on YOUR platform... for now. Support them if you are interested in seeing any other games by them. For a company their size, every sale is counted and is important.

Yes you have evey right to buy or not to buy the game, but think about the message you will be sending with your vote. It's not like Battlefront DOESN'T want to support OSX, they can't. Now what you should do is boycott OSX until it delivers everything Apple promised it to do, including supporting RAVE... fully.

I think your argument is silly. Rebooting isn't too hard, and you can play with software 3D if you really don't want to reboot. You can play over IP in classic mode as well. What's more important, how the game looks or how it plays. It plays the same in software mode, if looks are the most importtant thing, there are plenty of other games that don't play as good as CM but look better, play them.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by jeffsmith:

MS Patent Claims

Time for "Rave 2 the Resurrection"

Great Link

thanks

this is some of what it says:

Microsoft responded to the increasing use of OpenGL for Windows games by creating DirectX,

which is focused on games on the Windows platform. However, games that use DirectX are

more difficult to port to non-Windows platforms, which boosts the attractiveness of Windows for

gamers. Supporters of Linux, Mac OS or other operating systems are, therefore, wary of any

move by Microsoft to interfere with OpenGL.

OpenGL owes its current success to an unrestrictive licensing system, which allows

developers to write to the API without a licence, and which carries no royalty fees. This benefits

the makers of graphics hardware, who would otherwise be stuck either paying royalties to

patent holders or supporting a number of different proprietary standards. But the system only

works if companies that hold relevant intellectual property agree not to press their claims, in

return for the benefits of a free, unified standard.

[ July 14, 2002, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Kurtz]

Originally posted by karch:

By not buying a copy, your vote is saying to BF, "Don't bother developing for Mac's any more". If enough people do that, then there will be NO next version in OSX to buy.

I was thinking of buying a Mac, but the reason I have stayed away from Macs in the past is partly due to their operating system. Now, with OS X, I am seriously thinking of Mac as an replacement for Windows. But if I can't play CM on my new computer, it doesn't feel like a great idea anymore. Maybe I'll buy a Mac and use for everything else, and only use my windows computer for CM...

I understand the reasons for not making an OS X version, I just wanted to voice my opinion even though I'll will not buy a Mac version this time.

[karch]

Originally posted by Kurtz:

I understand your point, except that you WILL be able to play CM on any Mac you can buy right now, you just have to reboot into OS9. WIndows users have been doing it for years. NT4 doesn't support DirectX so many users had dual boot NT/95 systems to work and game on. Think of if the same way.

I don't want to sound like I LIKE the situation. I'm a full time OSX user on 3 Macs and love the OS. Even thinking about software development myself. But this is our situation and we have to deal with it. I just don't want people to make decisions because of the wrong information... like "It won't run on new Macs" or without realizing the greater impact of Mac users NOT buying Mac versions of CM. It will have an impact. There may be no OSX version next version if not enough Mac users buy it this time. And it WILL be a harder sell because of lack of OSX support. Every Mac sale is VERY important. Please rethink your decision for all Mac users sake, including your own.

Remember.... only YOU can save Macintosh.

[Kurtz]

Originally posted by karch:

Hehe, I've got a Linux/W98 dual boot system right now. W98 for CM, Linux for everything serious. But I still don't like to reboot.

You forgot:

And at the same time get a Real Combat Mission!

[bsoplinger]

Originally posted by karch:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bsoplinger:

........*sigh* a lost sale for battlefront, as I don't need yet another 'have to boot to OS 9 on a machine that really isn't setup to do this anymore." .... I loved this game and would dearly love to support them, but not to the tune of buying a piece of software I can't use.

Well, if you like Battlefront and CM. Suck it up and buy the game. By not buying a copy, your vote is saying to BF, "Don't bother developing for Mac's any more". If enough people do that, then there will be NO next version in OSX to buy. </font>

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by bsoplinger:

Well that's one way to look at it, another is its 50 bucks of total charity to a company, hoping that the next game they release will be available for OS X. And personally, I don't like being blackmailed. It shouldn't be too hard for battlefront to compare sales this time to last time and figure that the lesser sales are due to not having an OS X version.

It's only "charity" if you're not going to play the game at all. And of course you shouldn't buy CMBB if you won't play it; no one should.

I doubt that the absence of OSX support will noticeably affect the sales of CMBB, since I suspect there are, at most, 30 people for whom this is a deal breaker. And while I'm sure that BFC would like to have this extra $1,500, this amount of money won't come close to making up for the six extra months and ten of thousands of extra dollars that making an OSX version for CM would cost. This is probably the same reason that there is not a Linux version of CM.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Andrew Hedges:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bsoplinger:

Well that's one way to look at it, another is its 50 bucks of total charity to a company, hoping that the next game they release will be available for OS X. And personally, I don't like being blackmailed. It shouldn't be too hard for battlefront to compare sales this time to last time and figure that the lesser sales are due to not having an OS X version.

It's only "charity" if you're not going to play the game at all. And of course you shouldn't buy CMBB if you won't play it; no one should.

I doubt that the absence of OSX support will noticeably affect the sales of CMBB, since I suspect there are, at most, 30 people for whom this is a deal breaker. And while I'm sure that BFC would like to have this extra $1,500, this amount of money won't come close to making up for the six extra months and ten of thousands of extra dollars that making an OSX version for CM would cost. This is probably the same reason that there is not a Linux version of CM.</font>

[jeffsmith]

I'd boot into OS 8 or Win 3.1 if it meant playing CMBB

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Even though there is a great deal of bitching about this even I would say the figure of 30 people for whom MAC OSX is a deal breaker issue, is still on the high side.

-tom w

I wouldn't examine the "30" too closely. I just pulled it out of my ass.

Seriously, though, I think it is probably on the high side as well. I just took the number of people on the forum who said it was a deal breaker, added another one for good measure, and multiplied that number by 10, figuring that I at least wouldn't undercount that way.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Andrew Hedges:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Even though there is a great deal of bitching about this even I would say the figure of 30 people for whom MAC OSX is a deal breaker issue, is still on the high side.

-tom w

I wouldn't examine the "30" too closely. I just pulled it out of my ass.

Seriously, though, I think it is probably on the high side as well. I just took the number of people on the forum who said it was a deal breaker, added another one for good measure, and multiplied that number by 10, figuring that I at least wouldn't undercount that way.</font>

[Hoopenfaust2]

Mac Os X does not play games faster or better. Check any mac games forum and you will see the results. Tom, you are like me ( a mac tech) and you don't seem to have any problems using 9.2. I work in a design firm and we aren't touching mac os X until they can make it better than 9.2. Mac os X cannot draw vector graphics quickly ( in macromedia software) so why would I switch.

And since I'm addicted to CM I never boot into mac os x anyways.

Just in from MacNN news website : Apple was on target with 10% of its 25 million user base currently using OS X (Schiller said Apple expects 5 million OS X users by the end of year)

That answers lots of questions.

The mac is a designers tool ( at least the majority). Apple is trying to grab more market share by hurting the market that already exists.

[ July 15, 2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Hoopenfaust 101 ]

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Hoopenfaust 101:

Mac Os X does not play games faster or better. Check any mac games forum and you will see the results. Tom, you are like me ( a mac tech) and you don't seem to have any problems using 9.2. I work in a design firm and we aren't touching mac os X until they can make it better than 9.2. Mac os X cannot draw vector graphics quickly ( in macromedia software) so why would I switch.

And since I'm addicted to CM I never boot into mac os x anyways.

The mac is a designers tool ( at least the majority). Apple is trying to grab more market share by hurting the market that already exists.

Apple of course claims OSX is GREAT on a FAST machine, like it works REALLY well on a Dual 1 Gig G4. Right so its another marketing scam to sell more Hardware and Software, of that I have no doubt.

My everyday all around use mac is a 400 mHz G3 and I think running OSX would be a total waste of my time. If you are not running Mac OSX on something faster than a 500 mHz G4 you are wasting your time as 9.x will do evertything faster.

OSX is nice and it is pretty, but on old Macs it is slower than the operating system is it replacing. At work we know all our Macs will upgrade to Mac OSX in Sept. 2003 for sure, but by then there will be newer and faster macs in all the computer labs and the slowest Mac we will be running will be a g4 500 mHz tower, and some old G3 laptops.

I'll be happy enough if 2 - 2.5 years from now CM II comes out on Mac OSX(?) (OSXI).

But for now booting into 9.x is no big deal really.

-tom w