Nordic Wannabee Tourney - finals

[Treeburst155]

ciks,

The Nordic Champ tourney was scored without including the results from this tourney in the calculation(they weren't ready yet). Here is the way it would have stacked up if both tourneys were run as one, not including the AARs:

Ari 9.43

Cogust 8.00

-----------------------------ciks 7.40

Sesam 6.96

-----------------------Mr_johnson 6.62

Mattias 6.41

----------------------------Wreck 5.92

DrAlimantado 4.35

-----------------------Cpl_Carrot 4.23

Ali 4.19

-------------------------Ricochet 4.10

Pixie 3.89

---------------------------White4 3.35

--------------------------Thumpre 2.78

Topi 2.17

Fate 1.74

Jarmo 1.20

Juha_K 0.93

--------------------The_Commissar 0.38

Tuomas -0.04

Juha_A -0.39

-------------------------Strider -1.25

Torbhen -1.52

--------------Kanonier_Reichmann -1.61

Lopaka -1.86

-----------------------Jack_Trap -2.08

S_Fredrikson -2.14

tero -2.62

------------------------Massattack -3.05

Heibis -3.07

-------------------------Sgt_Kelly -3.52

Kingfish -4.21

----------------------Combined_Arms -4.25

Ugbash -4.29

J_Porta -4.68

Romeoman -4.98

-------------------------a1steaks -5.57

PasiN -6.77

---------------------------Scheer -7.02

------------------------Warhammer -8.04

Dragoon19 -9.61

vskalex -13.03

Treeburst155 out.

[edgars]

I see. Third place. Not bad anyway.

About the playoffs. Section 1 guys: maybe, just maybe, in order for White4, Wreck and me to have all the promised playoff fun, you could vote the winner among yourselves judging from existing raw scores (i suck at math, just tell me if it's impossible)? Just for the sake of playing the thing to the end. Off course it is completely up to you and your free will to do or not to do so.

[Nabla]

Originally posted by Treeburst155:

The Nordic Champ tourney was scored without including the results from this tourney in the calculation(they weren't ready yet). Here is the way it would have stacked up if both tourneys were run as one, not including the AARs:

Sesam 6.96

Tuomas -0.04

Treeburst155 out.

Otherwise these NCT scores seem pretty similar, except for Tuomas. (original Sesam 4.13, Tuomas 2.83). The difference seems to be caused largely by results of The Aftermath. The medians are exactly the opposite when NWT results are included. Original NC

Scenario [ The_Aftermath ] medians [ 41.25 58.75 ].

After NWT results:

Scenario [ The_Aftermath ] medians [ 59 41 ].

Pretty interesting.

[ April 19, 2002, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ]

[Redwolf]

Hey, Nabla and Treeburst.

It appears to me that it would be possible to compute how I would rate, since I completed all my games in section one (am I the only one?).

I know we can't take my result (or section one's) to adjust the medians, but I think we can see how I rate within the medians built by the others.

Nabla, any chance to build that into your program. I would hate to do the math on my own (sigh).

[ April 19, 2002, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Treeburst155]

Redwolf,

You can calculate your distance from the median for each scenario (in CM points) and determine the average distance over all the scenarios. With this figure I can tell you fairly accurately where you would have placed, since somebody in the two tourneys would likely have a game result that is very near your average distance from the median. IOW, if an individual game result for a player amounts to 6 CM points over the median, and your average for the five games is also 6 points over the median the Nabla score is the same for both.

Let me know your average distance from the median over all the scenarios, and I will hunt for that same number in the output file. This way we can determine your tourney score!

Nabla,

Very interesting about The Aftermath. Could this mean that the scenario has a large luck element to it? This would cause balance to shift quite a bit, eh?

Treeburst155 out.

[Treeburst155]

ciks,

Regarding your overall placement. You may have placed third over both tourneys, but your competition may have been tougher. You played different people than they did. In any case, you're one of the Uber players and will be placed in a difficult section next time.

As for the missing playoffs, what if we had an elimination playoff?! There are six of you, and three scenarios. The winners of the first scenario, along with the highest scoring loser move on to the second scenario. Now we're down to four players. These four then play the second scenario, giving us two remaining players who would do battle with the third scenario. Then we have a Champion!! This would not be a lot of work for me either. It would take some time because the scenarios would have to be played consecutively rather than simultaneously; but it just might be an idea, eh?

Drawbacks:

1) time

2) not all finalists would get to play all the scenarios.

Treeburst155 out.

[Treeburst155]

Redwolf,

Medians for the scenarios, Allied on the left.

Scenario [ Economy_OF_Force ] medians [ 77 23 ].

Scenario [ Gotta_Get_Up ] medians [ 35 65 ].

Scenario [ The_Aftermath ] medians [ 59 41 ]

Scenario [ Enough_Is_Enough ] medians [ 56 44 ]

Scenario [ Meeting_Of_Devils ] medians [ 51 49]

Don't forget to make all your game scores add up to 100. Split the difference. If score was 60-30 then count it as 65-35, etc.. The Nabla program does this first, before working on the CM scores and determining the scenario medians.

Treeburst155 out.

[Redwolf]

Thanks Treeburst, here are my results.

100% - adjusted results are in parenthesis, My result is always first.

1 rother: Economy Of Force - 85:15 (Won as Allies)

2 mare: Gotta Get Up - 81:19 (Won as Axis)

3 sgt-gold: The Aftermath - 60:40 (Won as Allies)

4 cooper: Enough is enough - 38:58 (40:60) (Lost as Axis)

5 hellfish: Meeting of Devils - 27:73 (Lost as Allies)

[Treeburst155]

Redwolf,

Your final tourney score is 4.338. You would have scored fourth place in the Wannabee Tourney overall. I looked up a Nabla score for each one of your games and took the average. I only had to approximate one time. The figure is accurate to within +/- .100. You did a good job. For that, you will have to be in one of the more Uber sections in the CMBB tourney.

Treeburst155 out.

[Cpl Carrot]

With Redwolf making fourth place that makes me tenth. I hope this means I won't be with the Uber players in the next torny.

[Ricochet]

Well I must say that the overall ranking isn’t quite fair.

After all I had to fight in Group 2 and as everybody knows Group 2 were the meanest, roughest, toughest, fightin’est SOB’s in all the European theater.

So using my formula we all placed in the top 5 overall.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Treeburst155:

You did a good job. For that, you will have to be in one of the more Uber sections in the CMBB tourney.

****. I should have kept my mouth shut

[Nabla]

Originally posted by Ricochet:

Well I must say that the overall ranking isn’t quite fair.

After all I had to fight in Group 2 and as everybody knows Group 2 were the meanest, roughest, toughest, fightin’est SOB’s in all the European theater.

So using my formula we all placed in the top 5 overall.

Well, you're obviously correct about the fact that the overall ranking is not logically consistent. The orderings inside the groups are the only ones that make sense.

However, I think that everybody wants to have the SOB status, so you'll have to fight for that one.

[Jack Trap]

As the dust is setting on the first chapter of the NWT, it is clear who the MVP's are. Thanks Treeburst, Nabla and everyone that developed and managed this tournament. Your generous contribution of time and effort is greatly appreciated and enjoyed. I hope that the AAR's will bring some pleasure to the battle developers.

As for the members of section 2: Thank you for the (sometimes excruciating) pleasure of your opponentry. To be rated a little below average with this group is an honor.

Ricochet make us proud!

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Medians for the scenarios, Allied on the left.

Scenario [ Economy_OF_Force ] medians [ 77 23 ].

Scenario [ Gotta_Get_Up ] medians [ 35 65 ].

Scenario [ The_Aftermath ] medians [ 59 41 ]

Scenario [ Enough_Is_Enough ] medians [ 56 44 ]

Scenario [ Meeting_Of_Devils ] medians [ 51 49]

I noticed that the score for "The Aftermath" is exactly reverse than that of the real Nordics (who scored 41:59 in the table I saved from their thread).

Typo?

[Treeburst155]

Redwolf,

No typo, just an interesting fact. Nabla has noticed this too. It IS interesting.

To All,

I will begin posting individual scenario results complete with the Nabla scores for the scenario shortly. I have finished doing this for the Nordic Championship. Now it's your turn. You will then be able to see who did the best in each single scenario. Of course, Section One will have to guesstimate.

I think I will post a chart showing the Nabla score for various distances from the median. This will help Section One determine how they did. Geez, I'm full of good ideas. Too bad they take time to implement. I will do this before I post the individual scenario stats. Be patient, lots going on here at the Treeburst155 command center.

Treeburst155 out.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Treeburst155:

No typo, just an interesting fact. Nabla has noticed this too. It IS interesting.

The real Nordic were probably just too reckless when playing Axis

It is interesting that my score in this scenario pushed my overall score quite a bit, but only because I'm in the wannabees. If I had been rated in the real Nordics, my score in this scenario would be exactly average. And I wouldn't have to play Wreck in Pz II versus T-34...

[Treeburst155]

LOL!!

You may not have to play Wreck. There will be eight sections. He may end up in the other Gladiator section. No matter where you end up though, you're going to meet some tough opponents.

That's the thanks you get for playing well.

Victory will be all the sweeter however.

Treeburst155 out.

[Treeburst155]

This is mainly for Redwolf since I know he is interested in the nuts and bolts of scoring, but the rest of you may find it interesting too.

Relation to Median, equivalent Nabla score

+40, 14.24

+35, 13.80

+30, 13.20

+25, 12.36

+20, 11.19

+15, 9.58

+10, 7.35

+5, 4.27

Median, 0

-5, -4.27

-10, -7.35

-15, -9.86

-20, -12.36

-25, -14.86

-30, -17.36

-35, -19.86

-40, -22.36

The vast majority of games don't differ from the median much more than +/- 20. You'll notice that at about -15 you start getting punished for losing badly. The effect doesn't become really significant until about -20. IOW, -20 hurts more than +20 helps. Compare the opposite values.

At this point we are assuming haphazard play or a complete surrender has taken place. We felt it was best to punish the loser rather than reward the victor in such circumstances. We don't want the beneficiary of a premature surrender, or suicidal wreckless play, to pull way ahead because of it. Overwhelming victories are still rewarded with a little higher score, and the knowledge that you are really hurting your opponent's chances.

From looking at all the completed tourneys it is apparent that any final score over 4.00 represents fairly solid play.

Treeburst155 out.

[ April 20, 2002, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[Jack Trap]

So what your saying is that my having to auto surrender in two of the five games was a bad thing.

[Treeburst155]

Jack Trap,

Auto-surrender itself is not subject to punishment by the scoring system. It all depends on how bad the auto-surrender causes your score to be in relation to the median. What you don't want to do is voluntarily surrender. You should withdraw your troops from the map until the game auto-surrenders you. Every unit that gets off the map robs your opponent of capture points when the auto-surrender takes place.

Ideally, you would withdraw all your troops to a map edge, then step off the map with all of them simultaneously. This will prevent excessive global morale loss and the resultant auto-surrender until all have exited. This is not always easy to do, of course.

In cases where both players are approaching the auto-surrender point, the player who first succumbs will definitely be hurt bad. If you're near auto-surrender (15% morale?), it's time to consider carefully your future actions.

EDIT: In none of your games did you do poorly enough to have the "devastating loss" penalty kick in. -20 from the median is a sound trouncing. Your worst was -12. If I would quit posting and get to work you could see for yourself when I post individual scenario stats.

Treeburst155 out.

[ April 20, 2002, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[Treeburst155]

Here is a direct copy of an optional tourney output file that shows difference from the median and resulting Nabla score for each scenario. The CM game score is not included.

Scenario [ Economy_OF_Force ] medians [ 77 23 ].

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Thumpre ], difference from median [ -15.5 ] score [ -10.1104 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Ricochet ] difference from median [ 15.5 ] score [ 9.76722 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Massattack ], difference from median [ 8 ] score [ 6.23815 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Jack_Trap ] difference from median [ -8 ] score [ -6.23815 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ White4 ], difference from median [ 15 ] score [ 9.58166 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ a1steaks ] difference from median [ -15 ] score [ -9.86041 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Cpl_Carrot ], difference from median [ 2 ] score [ 1.87545 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ The_Commissar ] difference from median [ -2 ] score [ -1.87545 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Kanonier_Reichmann ], difference from median [ -20.5 ] score [ -12.6104 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Lopaka ] difference from median [ 20.5 ] score [ 11.3259 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Warhammer ], difference from median [ -19 ] score [ -11.8604 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Wreck ] difference from median [ 19 ] score [ 10.9102 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Mr_johnson ], difference from median [ 4 ] score [ 3.52228 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Combined_Arms ] difference from median [ -4 ] score [ -3.52228 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Scheer ], difference from median [ -2 ] score [ -1.87545 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Strider ] difference from median [ 2 ] score [ 1.87545 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ Sgt_Kelly ], difference from median [ -31 ] score [ -17.8604 ]

[ Economy_OF_Force ] player [ ciks ] difference from median [ 31 ] score [ 13.3335 ]

________________________________________________

Scenario [ Gotta_Get_Up ] medians [ 35 65 ].

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Massattack ], difference from median [ -8 ] score [ -6.23815 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Thumpre ] difference from median [ 8 ] score [ 6.23815 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Ricochet ], difference from median [ 12 ] score [ 8.33222 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ White4 ] difference from median [ -12 ] score [ -8.36041 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Jack_Trap ], difference from median [ 8 ] score [ 6.23815 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ a1steaks ] difference from median [ -8 ] score [ -6.23815 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Kanonier_Reichmann ], difference from median [ -2 ] score [ -1.87545 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Cpl_Carrot ] difference from median [ 2 ] score [ 1.87545 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ The_Commissar ], difference from median [ 7 ] score [ 5.62388 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Warhammer ] difference from median [ -7 ] score [ -5.62388 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Lopaka ], difference from median [ -13 ] score [ -8.86041 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Wreck ] difference from median [ 13 ] score [ 8.77604 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Scheer ], difference from median [ -17 ] score [ -10.8604 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Mr_johnson ] difference from median [ 17 ] score [ 10.2891 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Combined_Arms ], difference from median [ -12 ] score [ -8.36041 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Sgt_Kelly ] difference from median [ 12 ] score [ 8.33222 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ Strider ], difference from median [ -20 ] score [ -12.3604 ]

[ Gotta_Get_Up ] player [ ciks ] difference from median [ 20 ] score [ 11.1918 ]

________________________________________________

Scenario [ The_Aftermath ] medians [ 59 41 ].

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Thumpre ], difference from median [ 5 ] score [ 4.26881 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ White4 ] difference from median [ -5 ] score [ -4.26881 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ a1steaks ], difference from median [ -2 ] score [ -1.87545 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Massattack ] difference from median [ 2 ] score [ 1.87545 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Jack_Trap ], difference from median [ 2 ] score [ 1.87545 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Ricochet ] difference from median [ -2 ] score [ -1.87545 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Cpl_Carrot ], difference from median [ 11 ] score [ 7.85858 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Warhammer ] difference from median [ -11 ] score [ -7.86041 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Wreck ], difference from median [ 6 ] score [ 4.96836 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Kanonier_Reichmann ] difference from median [ -6 ] score [ -4.96836 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Lopaka ], difference from median [ -3.5 ] score [ -3.13042 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ The_Commissar ] difference from median [ 3.5 ] score [ 3.13042 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Mr_johnson ], difference from median [ 17 ] score [ 10.2891 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Sgt_Kelly ] difference from median [ -17 ] score [ -10.8604 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ ciks ], difference from median [ 2 ] score [ 1.87545 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Scheer ] difference from median [ -2 ] score [ -1.87545 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Strider ], difference from median [ 18.5 ] score [ 10.7624 ]

[ The_Aftermath ] player [ Combined_Arms ] difference from median [ -18.5 ] score [ -11.6104 ]

________________________________________________

Scenario [ Enough_Is_Enough ] medians [ 56 44 ].

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ a1steaks ], difference from median [ -15 ] score [ -9.86041 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Thumpre ] difference from median [ 15 ] score [ 9.58166 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ White4 ], difference from median [ 12 ] score [ 8.33222 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Jack_Trap ] difference from median [ -12 ] score [ -8.36041 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Massattack ], difference from median [ -5 ] score [ -4.26881 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Ricochet ] difference from median [ 5 ] score [ 4.26881 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Wreck ], difference from median [ -1 ] score [ -0.968193 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Cpl_Carrot ] difference from median [ 1 ] score [ 0.968193 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Warhammer ], difference from median [ 0 ] score [ 0 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Lopaka ] difference from median [ 0 ] score [ 0 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Kanonier_Reichmann ], difference from median [ -1 ] score [ -0.968193 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ The_Commissar ] difference from median [ 1 ] score [ 0.968193 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ ciks ], difference from median [ 3 ] score [ 2.72562 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Mr_johnson ] difference from median [ -3 ] score [ -2.72562 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Sgt_Kelly ], difference from median [ -9 ] score [ -6.81376 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Strider ] difference from median [ 9 ] score [ 6.81376 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Scheer ], difference from median [ -16.5 ] score [ -10.6104 ]

[ Enough_Is_Enough ] player [ Combined_Arms ] difference from median [ 16.5 ] score [ 10.1207 ]

_______________________________________________

Scenario [ Meeting_Of_Devils ] medians [ 51 49 ].

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Thumpre ], difference from median [ 4.5 ] score [ 3.90161 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Jack_Trap ] difference from median [ -4.5 ] score [ -3.90161 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Ricochet ], difference from median [ 0 ] score [ 0 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ a1steaks ] difference from median [ 0 ] score [ 0 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Massattack ], difference from median [ -21 ] score [ -12.8604 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ White4 ] difference from median [ 21 ] score [ 11.4557 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Cpl_Carrot ], difference from median [ 12.5 ] score [ 8.55773 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Lopaka ] difference from median [ -12.5 ] score [ -8.61041 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ The_Commissar ], difference from median [ -7.5 ] score [ -5.936 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Wreck ] difference from median [ 7.5 ] score [ 5.936 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Kanonier_Reichmann ], difference from median [ 25 ] score [ 12.3552 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Warhammer ] difference from median [ -25 ] score [ -14.8604 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Mr_johnson ], difference from median [ 22 ] score [ 11.7029 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Strider ] difference from median [ -22 ] score [ -13.3604 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Combined_Arms ], difference from median [ -11 ] score [ -7.86041 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ ciks ] difference from median [ 11 ] score [ 7.85858 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Scheer ], difference from median [ -15 ] score [ -9.86041 ]

[ Meeting_Of_Devils ] player [ Sgt_Kelly ] difference from median [ 15 ] score [ 9.58166 ]

[Mr. Johnson--]

Woohoo, we can finally talk about it, just saw the results. I did pretty good, very happy with the results. Ciks got me good because I tried to rush his positions in a coup de main in the early game, but he held and pushed me way back.

I'd like to get in on that CMBB tourny, if i'm eligible.

[Treeburst155]

I was wondering about you Mr. Johnson. You did very well in this tourney. We need you for the Gladiator section in the big CMBB tourney. Sign up at the, "To All WineCape Tourney Vets" thread if you haven't already.

Treeburst155 out.

[Treeburst155]

OK, I refuse to let this tourney slip into the past without a proper final. We have six players. We will have three scenarios by Nabla. I have a couple that I think have some potential. So we have something to work with here.

I need to hear from White4, Wreck, ciks, Redwolf, Uber General, and Mare Ichthys. Post here if you want a playoff. When I see how many of you are interested I will figure something out. It may have to be quite different than the Nordic Champ finals, but we will determine a Wannabee Champion somehow if you guys want.

Treeburst155 out.