Pud Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 I must have missed this news, which sight is gone? I will also be making any mods I have downloaded or made available via Kazaa (light). Wont be 24/7 as I have dialup but as long as the file name remains the same that doesnt matter as a single file gets downloaded in portions from multiple sites. [edit] If you do use Kazaa light, just edit the files details within kazaa to add "CMBB" as a keyword so they can be searched on easily. [edit again] just had a look at the alt.news idea. Not good as its unmoderated theres adds and loosers posting [ October 19, 2002, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Pud ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: What does it take to get unlimited bandwidth? How high up the internet ladder do you have to go where you can control the bandwidth?Speaking of my own experience - as you maybe know, I offer a bunch of mods at WarfareHQ. You can find several providers that offer WebSpace with unlimited traffic for relative good pricing. But this is nothing but eyewash. You have only umlimted traffic until you try to make use of unlimited bandwith. In one case they simply deleted all zip files without any request or message. There is no cheap solution if you want to offer download stuff in a real big scope. Ask Manx! There are only few possible ways, IMO. 1) Spreat the stuff on many small sites. This would mean a lack of overview. One can try to create an index - some people already do. This means a high level of discipline for the webmasters/mod designers and inform the index keeper about all changes, links etc. There are some other difficulties, too. 2) A P2P solution. Possible and in princip a good idea, but has several disadvantages. Is the mod always available? How do you know if you download the latest version? 3) A sponsored central mod site. I think this is a good solution, but a) who will sponsor? who will run the site, meaning, who makes the dirty work? [ October 19, 2002, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted October 20, 2002 Author Share Posted October 20, 2002 Scipio is right. There is no such thing as unlimited bandwidth. You will see many companies offering this as part of their sales pitch, but the moment you go over their "invisible" boundary (when you start to affect their service levels to other clients), they will be onto to you straight away. You can only put them off for so long before they ask for lots more cash, and if this isn't forthcoming -- closedown time. The only way you can overcome this is if you are willing to spend 1000,s getting your SP to setup a dedicated server with an agreed bandwidth quota. Or of course, setup your own server at home. This can be expensive depending on what sort of hardware you need to buy, but at least then YOU are in control. BFC, Mentioned earlier -- Is there anything you can do to help out? [ October 19, 2002, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Manx ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by Manx: Or of course, setup your own server at home. This can be expensive depending on what sort of hardware you need to buy, but at least then YOU are in control.This is what I am talking about - not having to rely on someone else for bandwidth. It is much more complicated than setting up a server and registering a domain? I know I can't do it with my cable ISP because they don't allow servers. Do you still connect via an internet service provider, or how else do you connect to the net? How exepnsive and how much knowledge does it take to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 By they way - I wonder were MadMatt hosts CMHQ, and what he have to pay for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 What about servers which do not limit in GB/month but in KB/sec. That way connections grind to a halt when too many people attempt to load it but those who really want it and are patient will always be able to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Manx: Or of course, setup your own server at home. This can be expensive depending on what sort of hardware you need to buy, but at least then YOU are in control.This is what I am talking about - not having to rely on someone else for bandwidth. It is much more complicated than setting up a server and registering a domain? I know I can't do it with my cable ISP because they don't allow servers. Do you still connect via an internet service provider, or how else do you connect to the net? How exepnsive and how much knowledge does it take to do this?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 P.S.: You can - in theory - set up a server at home. But this means of course you have to install some Cisco hardware (I'm really no expert for this, so I better don't go into the details), have a high bandwith connection to the internet and a server, both running 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Getting a server is relatively cheap and easy. Most of the qualified techie types probably have an old machine with enough umph sitting about. It might need a some more RAM and more disk space, but no need to buy a box. The problem is bandwith. Residential service agreements either ban servers outright or severly limit monthly upload (my new one will let me serve pages, but upload is limited to 1gb a month). You need to go with business services, and since it is a fairly bandwith intensive task, you need a fat pipe. I did a cursory search, and it looks like the going rate for 1500/1500 is $300/month and up. Of course, one could get a T1 for $650 a month or so. If I was still living in Mom's basement, I would actually consider it, but I have rent to pay. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 So, it seems the simplest and most realistic solution is for one of us to win the lottery. Hmmm... if we each buy 5 tickets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: How does free downloading of warez or music mp3's work?? I know there is alot of free bandwidth out there I'm just not sure how to get at it? There are all kinds of folks out ther running Hotline/Limewire/gnutella/Kwaza servers in their baesments and they have much great file transfer needs than a mod server. I wish I know more about how guys that have 10 gigs of free software, videos and MP3's keep their sites up for free while allowing unlimited downloading with all that bandwidth?? :confused: again I wish I know alot more about how hosting a MP3 free music site worked? Was there not a fan of CM here that was going to host a Hotline server with only CMBO mods on it. Maybe I will do a search for his old (1 yr maybe) post? -tom wI just want to know who pays for the bandwidth when you down look a few gig of Free MP3's from someone elses underground server? Limewire and and other gnutella clients now do what Napster used to, the client is both a host and server and CLIENT, we need the napster model for MODS, if everything I have is available to any one when I'm online to get some more mods from someone else, this concept decentralizes the WHOLE thing, Napster might be dead BUT all the FREE MP3's are out there and you can use any number if clients to get them off other people (music enthusiasts) who are online when you are. (hotline, Limwire, kazaa a all flavours of the same concept) Why not the same idea for Mods? -tom w [ October 19, 2002, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by GJK: My suggestion as you all probably know is the newsgroups. I don't see why it hasn't been mentioned. I believe most ISP's provide NNTP service with their accounts and if not, there are newsproviders that cost as low as $10/month for 6 gigs of downloads. I believe you can subscribe to lower bandwidth/rate plans. Exactly... You can get cheap accounts with several providers that have good comnpletion... just have to make sure that these premium providers do not clip off binaries from text groups (or start or take over a dead binary group for CM stuff). Giganews is showing your posts just fine, though it looks like somefink happened to peering between giga and supernews last night as several files are incomplete... if I feel it had enough I'll post which parts are missing. Complaints against newsgroups that I forsee: 1. You don't see what your downloading? True, but you don't either with PTP file swapping. On the newsgroups, I can upload screenshot images that can be opened in the browser though.Easily taken care of by uploading a thumnail... just like including a graphic on a website of what the file is... If your curious about the newsgroups, go check out alt.games.combat-mission. I posted about 140 mb of mods there last night. I'll put up the screenshots and/or make the filenams more descriptive if that helps anybody. Seems like a best use of Gunny Bunny's folly I've heard in a while. While mgo is getting itself sorted out and Matt is too busy these days to update CMHQ the way it used to be, I see newsgroups as an excellent temporary storage area (though if it catches on we will have to start using a binary group or sysadmins will start getting pissed about the bloated text group vfull of files). Another nice thing about using newsgroups is that when someone remembers a mod from way back when and it's long gone, they usually come here and describe it... someone usually takes care of them pretty quick, but others might want a crack at it as well. If it's not up on one of the remaining sites, it can easily be uploaded to the newsgroup and anyone who wants to sample it can without making a thread here full of "me toos" requesting mailings. [ October 19, 2002, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 How about we invent a new music group, "The ModSluts", and then rename all the mod files to end in ".mp3" and get everyone else with Napster to store them and... Hey you guys. You're all worried about bandwidth and stuff... why worry? What is the goal here? Is it necessary to have one and only one site which hosts mods, or is it necessary and sufficient to benefit the community if it merely functions as the one "official" site which hosts all mods? What I mean is that IMHO you should go with distributed hosting, (which you can't fight anyhow), and bottlenecked *downloading*. You have one "official" site which lists all mods, and has them searchable and yadda- that's the obvious part. But then you also need one little bit more which is crucial- wherever in the whole web universe Mr Noobie goes to check out mods, if he clicks on a link to *download* a mod, he will be presented with a new page, the exact page which exists on that one official mod site. See? In this manner the mod shopper has direct and compelling evidence that there is indeed one site which officially lists all available mods in the known universe. Implementing this would require a bit of socialism, as it is incumbent on the webmasters of the official site to present their case to whatever renegade site owners are out there, but those individual site owners do not have to make any real kind of sacrifice. They can host their own mods and talk about how great they are and all that whole thing- all they have to be convinced of is to hook through the official site for the actual *download*. After all, in doing so they are helping the CM community. The same situation applies for scenarios, maps, and what have you. For scenario designers, who appear eager to have their stuff reviewed, it becomes easier if there is one and only one official site which has a nice interface. Imagine that, in downloading a scenario from TheCombatMatrix official site for stuff, the downloader is presented with a typical downloading page, which includes the query "the designer of this scenario would like you to recieve an 'AutoReviewReminder email'. In case you have not submitted a review in one month's time, you will receive one and only one pleasantly phrased email asking you to do so, with a link and whatnot". So although some renegade new webmaster new modder new scenario designer puts up a new site with his stuff, he in fact has inducement to detour his users through TheMatrix for the physical download, even though those files are on his own site. Anybody follow that? This message too long for proofreading, Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat1943 Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Guys, I think everybody (but Scipio and another chap I forgot) is forgetting a basic thing: BTS is a businness company. OK, we are all grateful to them for making the best PC game ever and giving us this monkey, but why should we tax ourselves (both in terms of money and time) to do that? Somebody in this tread said it costs $300 per month to host 30 gigs of stuff. Even if the figure was 10 times as much, that is still well withing the league of a business company (besides, BTS can write this off taxes, and they are saving big time money out of the direct marketing strategy they decided to pursue). Scipio also rightly pointed out that mods are what keeps the community going, and it is big and free advertising for BTS. I don't think it would be asking too much to have them create the space for us, the adoring fans, to post mods without having to scramble for improbable solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by Scipio: You can - in theory - set up a server at home. But this means of course you have to install some Cisco hardware (I'm really no expert for this, so I better don't go into the details), have a high bandwith connection to the internet and a server, both running 24 hours a day and 365 days a year.Nah, only when you get a special line with a special interface. This is very uncommon, whatever line you lease it usually ends up on ethernet. Any Pentium-1 with a good motherboard can serve a few gigabyte a day over Ethernet. Running a decent operating system, of course. And besides, some of the cheaper cisco equipment makes things worse, not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Compassion- What does it take to get a new newsgroup going? If we have to go that route, to get an alt.binaries.combat-mission up and running. Any ideas? BTW, I *finally* got Ed Kinney's bunker mod thanks to the newsgroup, I've been wanting to get that since it was first announced. Thanks to who ever posted it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 I loved your response to GB, even though he is technically correct about posting binaries to a nonbinary group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by GJK: Compassion- What does it take to get a new newsgroup going? If we have to go that route, to get an alt.binaries.combat-mission up and running. Any ideas?Well, there's a way to just do it by sending out a control message, but lots of news admins, especially ones for the major providers will ignore those messages of there wasn't discussion first at alt.config. You can get it done (the right way) by putting up a req for discussion at alt.config and then stepping though a couple of other steps... You can look in alt.config for a faq or look at any one of several websites that are out there to assist (http://www.nylon.net/alt/newgroup.htm is pretty good). There are some providers that will help you out with the steps. You might inquire with easynews and see if they'll assist. Oh, and I did a search in war-hist and there were 397 posts in the last 3 months on CM... Always a good indicator of support. That doens't answer questions about how many of those posts were about mods, but it's good to have a couple data points. It might be a good idea to hijack an unused binary group for a time to show use. It'll be difficult to show as the argument that web sites and ftp servers closing down is usually considered pretty weak to the alt.configgers. If we started by using an empty group for a while (I would suggest a.b.g.reposts, which has been empty forever) to show interest, I'd be glad to help jump through the hoops if no one has a friendly provider to help. BTW, I *finally* got Ed Kinney's bunker mod thanks to the newsgroup, I've been wanting to get that since it was first announced. Thanks to who ever posted it for me.That was me... you're welcome. [ October 20, 2002, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: I loved your response to GB, even though he is technically correct about posting binaries to a nonbinary group.Thanks, couldn't help it. It's a shame because when I first saw that group like 2 years ago I thought, wow, great place to swap mods, scenarios and general chat. But nothing is ever posted there except GB bashing the game then everyone coming back bashing him. And that's like maybe 5 posts a month. But, I understand if it is a non-binary group (it's basically a non-ascii group too...) I think that I would like to try to persue getting an alt.binaries.combat-mission group going. We'll see. It doesn't appear that the newsgroup thing is too popular of an idea, I think maybe a handful have checked it out, or so it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 I see compassion's issue, posting binaries in a text group. He suggests a.b.g.reposts (alt.binaries.games.reposts) which is a pretty empty group, but I have one that is about dead that I've used for things like this before: alt.binaries.w-software. I have no idea what w-software is, probably warez, but it's dead. If everybody can see that group with their news provider, I propose that one as a temporary mod hosting group until I can get the ball rolling on getting an a.b.combat-mission. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 What about sites like fileplanet.com? They host gigantic FPS mods, can't we use something like that? Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 double [ October 20, 2002, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Gyrene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by Gyrene: What about sites like fileplanet.com? They host gigantic FPS mods, can't we use something like that? Gyrene[Sure, and they already have a CM section that's full of demos & patches... no reason we couldn't submit mods to that section. Only probelms that I can see is that it can be diffiecult to get onto FP if you don't have an acct and for such a niche game, it might not propagate to the partner sites. The advantage of nntp is that it's local and should be fast for all... the disadvantage of course is retention. [ October 20, 2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by GJK: I see compassion's issue, posting binaries in a text group. He suggests a.b.g.reposts (alt.binaries.games.reposts) which is a pretty empty group, but I have one that is about dead that I've used for things like this before: alt.binaries.w-software. I have no idea what w-software is, probably warez, but it's dead. Both groups are not quite dead enouygh it looks like... reposts has been getting traffic recenlty... how aobut a.b.g.repost (no no trailing s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 I really don't understand why BFC didn't say a word on this... so *bump* and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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