Sardaukar Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 During that time Soviets don't have any tank/TD/Ass.G. that have much chance to punch through it's armour. Well, maybe SU-122 (no turret, slow ROF) or Valentine IX (very slow tank, not much use try to stalk with that). T-34/57 M41 dissappears end of 42 (very good, long 57 mm gun) and T-34/57 M43 comes to play Aug or Sept 43. But then you start to get 85 mm equipped vehicles. So, ideas how to stop early 1943 Tiger menace ? Here are few: -mines -pioneers - 57 mm ATG (with rarity, costs almost as much as Tiger) -luck Cheers, M.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 a) run hide c) panic Come to mind. Once you are through with either of those, try: a) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm) SU-122 c) Valentine IX d) mines e) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm) f) pioneers in ambush g) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm) h) heavy artillery and TRPs to strip the Tiger of any accompanying infantry i) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm) j) 57mm ATG BTW - did I mention massed AT assets? (on the grounds that even if they don't get through, they have a chance to damage the Tigers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by Sardaukar: During that time Soviets don't have any tank/TD/Ass.G. that have much chance to punch through it's armour. Well, maybe SU-122 (no turret, slow ROF) or Valentine IX (very slow tank, not much use try to stalk with that). T-34/57 M41 dissappears end of 42 (very good, long 57 mm gun) and T-34/57 M43 comes to play Aug or Sept 43. But then you start to get 85 mm equipped vehicles. So, ideas how to stop early 1943 Tiger menace ? Here are few: -mines -pioneers - 57 mm ATG (with rarity, costs almost as much as Tiger) -luck Cheers, M.S.When Tigers first appeared, they were most definitely a serious threat. I have read several accounts from various sources of Tigers retiring from the field due to lack of ammunition, and having astounding numbers of non-lethal hits (120+) of all calibers. Re-arm, refuel, new vision blocks, and off they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Before the patch, you just haul as many small caliber cannons as possible... then immobilize the behemoth and keep ponging its armour and the crew will eventually bail out Thats how I killed KV in the boring scenario with few Pz38t and Pz-IIs, with later reinforcement of PzIIIs and 88mm Flak. Lost couple Pz38t's only They shot on the move and KV got immobilized, soon after crew bailing out. Good thing that'll be fixed in next patch... whenever that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightblade Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 In the Tigerfibel there is a picture of a Tiger and a description of what it endured in battle. Dieser Tiger erhielt im Südabschnitt in 6 Stunden: 227 Treffer Panzerbüchse _14 Treffer 5,2 cm und _11 Treffer 7,62 cm. Keiner ging durch. Laufrollen und Verbindungsstücke waren zerschossen, 2 Schwingarme arbeiteten nicht mehr, mehrere Pak-Treffer saßen genau auf der Kette, und auf 3 Minen war er gefahren. Er fuhr mit eigener Kraft noch 60 km Gelände. The translation is about: This Tiger recieved in the southern section in 6 hours: 227 hits by ATR _24 hits by 5.2 cm and _11 hits by 7.62 None penetrated. Roadwheels and track links were destroyed by hits, 2 [schwingarme, sorry, don´t know how to translate that] didn´t work any more, several ATG hits were directly on the tracks, and it drove on 3 mines. It still drove 60 km offroad by itself. -- This was certainly an exceptional example and was used to motivate the Tiger crews (they don´t say what sort of mines it was, so it might have been tank mines but as well anti-personnel mines). But it surely showed what punishment a Tiger could take and still it survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Don't forget: -airstrikes -wet ground -driving around behind it with uber-speedy t-34s -massed ampulomet fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by Lumbergh: -driving around behind it with uber-speedy t-34s Which helps you how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 this is quite funny as there is another thread in Tips Section on 1941 German tank tactics against Russian tanks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted November 15, 2002 Author Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by laxx: this is quite funny as there is another thread in Tips Section on 1941 German tank tactics against Russian tanks.......Yep..I started this since tide turns to German favour when Tiger arrives. Suddenly those who were complaining about tough KV-1s and T-34s are driving even more dangerous beast. Tiger is very lethal to infantry too, good blast value and lots of both HE and MG ammo. I think bogging is the most serious problem that Tiger has. Then comes enemy infantry...at least up to arrival of T-34/85. I usually play Germans 1941-43 and Soviets 1944-45. I've learned to love T-34/85. King Tiger is much too overrated 1944 . Panther is good, but nothing compares to the superiority enjoyed by T-34 and KV-1 1941-42 and by Tiger 1942-43. Cheers, M.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by Fishu: Before the patch, you just haul as many small caliber cannons as possible... then immobilize the behemoth and keep ponging its armour and the crew will eventually bail out Thats how I killed KV in the boring scenario with few Pz38t and Pz-IIs, with later reinforcement of PzIIIs and 88mm Flak. Lost couple Pz38t's only They shot on the move and KV got immobilized, soon after crew bailing out. Good thing that'll be fixed in next patch... whenever that is I'm sorry :confused: I don't understand how the patch will help this issue?? What will the patch to do make this situation better? -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I think what he's actually referring to is that the patch should keep crews from bailing out of AFV's when being massively plinked by small caliber weapons. Crews bailing out of immobilized vehicles is certainly believable, as you never know when something bigger will take aim at you, artillery will start falling, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRSutton Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Yes, they are a handful until the 85mm gun becomes common. Just take comfort in knowing that in the real world the Soviet army did not have to worry about tigers too much as there were not enough of them to make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by Brightblade: This Tiger recieved in the southern section in 6 hours: 227 hits by ATR _24 hits by 5.2 cm and _11 hits by 7.62 None penetrated. Roadwheels and track links were destroyed by hits, 2 [schwingarme, sorry, don´t know how to translate that] didn´t work any more, several ATG hits were directly on the tracks, and it drove on 3 mines. It still drove 60 km offroad by itself. -- This was certainly an exceptional example and was used to motivate the Tiger crews (they don´t say what sort of mines it was, so it might have been tank mines but as well anti-personnel mines). But it surely showed what punishment a Tiger could take and still it survived.Did it drive the 60km off-road without tracks and a broken suspension? Wow! Btw. What soviet weapon fires 5.2 cm projectiles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by Foxbat: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Brightblade: This Tiger recieved in the southern section in 6 hours: 227 hits by ATR _24 hits by 5.2 cm and _11 hits by 7.62 None penetrated. Roadwheels and track links were destroyed by hits, 2 [schwingarme, sorry, don´t know how to translate that] didn´t work any more, several ATG hits were directly on the tracks, and it drove on 3 mines. It still drove 60 km offroad by itself. -- This was certainly an exceptional example and was used to motivate the Tiger crews (they don´t say what sort of mines it was, so it might have been tank mines but as well anti-personnel mines). But it surely showed what punishment a Tiger could take and still it survived.Did it drive the 60km off-road without tracks and a broken suspension? Wow! Btw. What soviet weapon fires 5.2 cm projectiles?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lumbergh: -driving around behind it with uber-speedy t-34s Which helps you how?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronX Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I just played a QB set in 43 where a 57mm gun disable one Tiger (gun hit) and took out another (side turret hit). :eek: Must admit I was pretty amazed, but there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: Is it possible that somewhere in the translation of this story 57mm became 5.2 cm?? :confused: Oh duh.. that's it of course. It never even crossed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I myself attempted to take on a Tiger with one platoon of (5) Valentine IX tanks. I came close once or twice and did manage a side penetration but in the end, the valentine is far too sluggish with an underpowered engine to play cat & mouse with a Tiger. Best thing to do is marginalize the Tiger by ceding that area. Concentrate your forces away from and around the Tiger. Ignore it then force it to move to re-engage. Then, and only then, can you use your secret weapon. The Bogger Mark I. -Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Originally posted by IronX: I just played a QB set in 43 where a 57mm gun disable one Tiger (gun hit) and took out another (side turret hit). :eek: Must admit I was pretty amazed, but there you go.The Soviet 57mm is a monster AT gun for its mm-size, its like 80 calibers long or something (57mm L80?) :eek: I know it's longer than the Panther gun (L70) in calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe: I think what he's actually referring to is that the patch should keep crews from bailing out of AFV's when being massively plinked by small caliber weapons. They bail out too easily of immobilized tank, when shot by totally inferior weapons. Hardly needs one or two turns of fire on immobilized tank with 20mm and its crew is about ready to ditch it and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdratt Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Originally posted by John D Salt: Wow, this is like finding out someone has the answer to the Caramilk secret. Don't you realize John, you've solved the Micheal Wittman controversy with your screw thread Tiger turret discovery. Now would that be the generic Pentax screw thread, or some kind of proprietary Pzkw nonsense designed to defeat cheap third party turret vendors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Originally posted by John D Salt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lumbergh: -driving around behind it with uber-speedy t-34s Which helps you how?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikser Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: The Soviet 57mm is a monster AT gun for its mm-size, its like 80 calibers long or something (57mm L80?) :eek: I know it's longer than the Panther gun (L70) in calibers.[/QB]It's 57mm/L73, but it is always relative to the the barrel, eg. barrel length 57 X 73 = 4.161 meters; whereas 75 X 70 = 5.250 meters - the Panther barrel is still notably longer. Presuming they were measured in the same way, which I really won't bother myself to check. Though I'm sure you already know this. [ November 16, 2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Mikser ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Originally posted by John D Salt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lumbergh: -driving around behind it with uber-speedy t-34s Which helps you how?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 -massed ampulomet fire In "Tiger Tiger" I managed to take out a Tiger I with 1 Ampulomet, 2 PTRD rifles, and a 45mm AT gun. Overall though: When Attacking as the Soviets, try to blind the Tiger's with FO smoke missions or direct fire 81mm Mortars. When defending as the Soviets, use satchel charge or flame thrower equiped Pioneers. Update: Just got done trying a few tests. The Only Soviet tank with will kill a Tiger I with any consistance is the SU-152 with AP ammo. Oh, and Satchel charges will blow it straight back to Berlin too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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