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Tiger during Jan-Aug 43, what can Soviets do ?

Sardaukar
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Sardaukar Senior Member

Sardaukar

Posted
Posted

During that time Soviets don't have any tank/TD/Ass.G. that have much chance to punch through it's armour. Well, maybe SU-122 (no turret, slow ROF) or Valentine IX (very slow tank, not much use try to stalk with that).

T-34/57 M41 dissappears end of 42 (very good, long 57 mm gun) and T-34/57 M43 comes to play Aug or Sept 43. But then you start to get 85 mm equipped vehicles.

So, ideas how to stop early 1943 Tiger menace ?

Here are few:

-mines

-pioneers

- 57 mm ATG (with rarity, costs almost as much as Tiger)

-luck

Cheers,

M.S.

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Andreas Senior Member

Andreas

Posted
Posted

a) run

B) hide

c) panic

Come to mind.

Once you are through with either of those, try:

a) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm)

B) SU-122

c) Valentine IX

d) mines

e) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm)

f) pioneers in ambush

g) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm)

h) heavy artillery and TRPs to strip the Tiger of any accompanying infantry

i) massed AT assets (45mm, 76mm)

j) 57mm ATG

BTW - did I mention massed AT assets? (on the grounds that even if they don't get through, they have a chance to damage the Tigers)

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Herr Oberst Senior Member

Herr Oberst

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Sardaukar:

During that time Soviets don't have any tank/TD/Ass.G. that have much chance to punch through it's armour. Well, maybe SU-122 (no turret, slow ROF) or Valentine IX (very slow tank, not much use try to stalk with that).

T-34/57 M41 dissappears end of 42 (very good, long 57 mm gun) and T-34/57 M43 comes to play Aug or Sept 43. But then you start to get 85 mm equipped vehicles.

So, ideas how to stop early 1943 Tiger menace ?

Here are few:

-mines

-pioneers

- 57 mm ATG (with rarity, costs almost as much as Tiger)

-luck

Cheers,

M.S.

When Tigers first appeared, they were most definitely a serious threat. I have read several accounts from various sources of Tigers retiring from the field due to lack of ammunition, and having astounding numbers of non-lethal hits (120+) of all calibers. Re-arm, refuel, new vision blocks, and off they go.
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Fishu Senior Member

Fishu

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Posted

Before the patch, you just haul as many small caliber cannons as possible... then immobilize the behemoth and keep ponging its armour and the crew will eventually bail out ;)

Thats how I killed KV in the boring scenario with few Pz38t and Pz-IIs, with later reinforcement of PzIIIs and 88mm Flak.

Lost couple Pz38t's only ;)

They shot on the move and KV got immobilized, soon after crew bailing out.

Good thing that'll be fixed in next patch... whenever that is :(

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Brightblade Senior Member

Brightblade

Posted
Posted

In the Tigerfibel there is a picture of a Tiger and a description of what it endured in battle.

Dieser Tiger erhielt im Südabschnitt in 6 Stunden:

227 Treffer Panzerbüchse

_14 Treffer 5,2 cm und

_11 Treffer 7,62 cm.

Keiner ging durch.

Laufrollen und Verbindungsstücke waren zerschossen,

2 Schwingarme arbeiteten nicht mehr,

mehrere Pak-Treffer saßen genau auf der Kette, und

auf 3 Minen war er gefahren.

Er fuhr mit eigener Kraft noch 60 km Gelände.

The translation is about:

This Tiger recieved in the southern section in 6 hours:

227 hits by ATR

_24 hits by 5.2 cm and

_11 hits by 7.62

None penetrated.

Roadwheels and track links were destroyed by hits,

2 [schwingarme, sorry, don´t know how to translate that] didn´t work any more,

several ATG hits were directly on the tracks, and

it drove on 3 mines.

It still drove 60 km offroad by itself.

--

This was certainly an exceptional example and was used to motivate the Tiger crews (they don´t say what sort of mines it was, so it might have been tank mines but as well anti-personnel mines).

But it surely showed what punishment a Tiger could take and still it survived.

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Sardaukar Senior Member

Sardaukar

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Posted
Originally posted by laxx:

this is quite funny as there is another thread in Tips Section on 1941 German tank tactics against Russian tanks.......

Yep..I started this since tide turns to German favour when Tiger arrives.

Suddenly those who were complaining about tough KV-1s and T-34s are driving even more dangerous beast. Tiger is very lethal to infantry too, good blast value and lots of both HE and MG ammo. I think bogging is the most serious problem that Tiger has. Then comes enemy infantry...at least up to arrival of T-34/85.

I usually play Germans 1941-43 and Soviets 1944-45. I've learned to love T-34/85. King Tiger is much too overrated 1944 smile.gif . Panther is good, but nothing compares to the superiority enjoyed by T-34 and KV-1 1941-42 and by Tiger 1942-43.

Cheers,

M.S.

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aka_tom_w Senior Member

aka_tom_w

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Fishu:

Before the patch, you just haul as many small caliber cannons as possible... then immobilize the behemoth and keep ponging its armour and the crew will eventually bail out ;)

Thats how I killed KV in the boring scenario with few Pz38t and Pz-IIs, with later reinforcement of PzIIIs and 88mm Flak.

Lost couple Pz38t's only ;)

They shot on the move and KV got immobilized, soon after crew bailing out.

Good thing that'll be fixed in next patch... whenever that is :(

I'm sorry

:confused:

I don't understand how the patch will help this issue??

What will the patch to do make this situation better?

-tom w

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Vergeltungswaffe Senior Member

Vergeltungswaffe

Posted
Posted

I think what he's actually referring to is that the patch should keep crews from bailing out of AFV's when being massively plinked by small caliber weapons.

Crews bailing out of immobilized vehicles is certainly believable, as you never know when something bigger will take aim at you, artillery will start falling, etc.

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Foxbat Senior Member

Foxbat

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Brightblade:

This Tiger recieved in the southern section in 6 hours:

227 hits by ATR

_24 hits by 5.2 cm and

_11 hits by 7.62

None penetrated.

Roadwheels and track links were destroyed by hits,

2 [schwingarme, sorry, don´t know how to translate that] didn´t work any more,

several ATG hits were directly on the tracks, and

it drove on 3 mines.

It still drove 60 km offroad by itself.

--

This was certainly an exceptional example and was used to motivate the Tiger crews (they don´t say what sort of mines it was, so it might have been tank mines but as well anti-personnel mines).

But it surely showed what punishment a Tiger could take and still it survived.

Did it drive the 60km off-road without tracks and a broken suspension? Wow!

Btw. What soviet weapon fires 5.2 cm projectiles?

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aka_tom_w Senior Member

aka_tom_w

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Foxbat:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Brightblade:

This Tiger recieved in the southern section in 6 hours:

227 hits by ATR

_24 hits by 5.2 cm and

_11 hits by 7.62

None penetrated.

Roadwheels and track links were destroyed by hits,

2 [schwingarme, sorry, don´t know how to translate that] didn´t work any more,

several ATG hits were directly on the tracks, and

it drove on 3 mines.

It still drove 60 km offroad by itself.

--

This was certainly an exceptional example and was used to motivate the Tiger crews (they don´t say what sort of mines it was, so it might have been tank mines but as well anti-personnel mines).

But it surely showed what punishment a Tiger could take and still it survived.

Did it drive the 60km off-road without tracks and a broken suspension? Wow!

Btw. What soviet weapon fires 5.2 cm projectiles?</font>

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Sarge Saunders Senior Member

Sarge Saunders

Posted
Posted

I myself attempted to take on a Tiger with one platoon of (5) Valentine IX tanks. I came close once or twice and did manage a side penetration but in the end, the valentine is far too sluggish with an underpowered engine to play cat & mouse with a Tiger.

Best thing to do is marginalize the Tiger by ceding that area. Concentrate your forces away from and around the Tiger. Ignore it then force it to move to re-engage. Then, and only then, can you use your secret weapon. The Bogger Mark I.

-Sarge

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Silvio Manuel Senior Member

Silvio Manuel

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by IronX:

I just played a QB set in 43 where a 57mm gun disable one Tiger (gun hit) and took out another (side turret hit). :eek: Must admit I was pretty amazed, but there you go.

The Soviet 57mm is a monster AT gun for its mm-size, its like 80 calibers long or something (57mm L80?) :eek: I know it's longer than the Panther gun (L70) in calibers.
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Fishu Senior Member

Fishu

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe:

I think what he's actually referring to is that the patch should keep crews from bailing out of AFV's when being massively plinked by small caliber weapons.

They bail out too easily of immobilized tank, when shot by totally inferior weapons.

Hardly needs one or two turns of fire on immobilized tank with 20mm and its crew is about ready to ditch it and run.

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Jagdratt Member

Jagdratt

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by John D Salt:

Wow, this is like finding out someone has the answer to the Caramilk secret. Don't you realize John, you've solved the Micheal Wittman controversy with your screw thread Tiger turret discovery.

Now would that be the generic Pentax screw thread, or some kind of proprietary Pzkw nonsense designed to defeat cheap third party turret vendors?

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Mikser Member

Mikser

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

The Soviet 57mm is a monster AT gun for its mm-size, its like 80 calibers long or something (57mm L80?) :eek: I know it's longer than the Panther gun (L70) in calibers.[/QB]

It's 57mm/L73, but it is always relative to the the barrel, eg. barrel length 57 X 73 = 4.161 meters; whereas 75 X 70 = 5.250 meters - the Panther barrel is still notably longer. Presuming they were measured in the same way, which I really won't bother myself to check. :D

Though I'm sure you already know this.

[ November 16, 2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Mikser ]

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Nippy Senior Member

Nippy

Posted
Posted

-massed ampulomet fire

In "Tiger Tiger" I managed to take out a Tiger I with 1 Ampulomet, 2 PTRD rifles, and a 45mm AT gun.

Overall though:

When Attacking as the Soviets, try to blind the Tiger's with FO smoke missions or direct fire 81mm Mortars.

When defending as the Soviets, use satchel charge or flame thrower equiped Pioneers.

Update: Just got done trying a few tests. The Only Soviet tank with will kill a Tiger I with any consistance is the SU-152 with AP ammo. Oh, and Satchel charges will blow it straight back to Berlin too :D

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