tiborhead Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 So, now that the vast Eastern Front in it's entirety is now gloriously packed into our little computer boxes, how many of you who weren't all that interested in said front are beginning to become more inquisitive? I believe I fall into this category. Prior to CMBB, my knowledge of the eastern front was severely limited, and any inclination to read up on that theater of the war was minimal. That has all changed lately. Currently, I am reading Paulus and Stalingrad: A Life of Field-Marshall Friedrich Paulus, War on the Eastern Front: The German Soldier in Russia, and Panzer Leader by Guderian. The latter isn't exclusively about the eastern front, but still has some interesting information on fighting in the east. That said, it's all quite fascinating. Just wondering, is anyone else is going through the same motions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I've always been more interested in the Ostfront (due to so little info on it compaired to the West Front books and films here in the states) than the American/Brittish invasion of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunflower Farm Boy Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Originally posted by Vader's Jester: I've always been more interested in the OstfrontDitto that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiborhead Posted November 8, 2002 Author Share Posted November 8, 2002 It would seem as though I am alone on this on, eh? I seem to recall some people stating that they find BB to be a little less fun, as they are not at all interested in the Ostfront. Some, IIRC, even stated that they would not buy the game based on this bias. VJ and SFB, can you fellows recommend some good reading? As the onset of winter draws near, I find myself reading a great deal more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I am reading When Titans Clashed right now. It is quite excellent. I started it because of what several other people on this forum said about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL4 Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 I too have been primarly interested in the eastern front. At the risk of getting blasted by a bunch of people... I've always felt the war was decided here. (I know, of course, that there are many different opinions on this.) I used to be primarily interested in strategic and/or operational level books, games, etc. But, over the past couple years I've been more interested in individual accounts. I read a book recently entitled "Through Hell for Hitler" by Henry Metelmann. It thought it was an excellent book. Only 200 pages, very smooth reading. Had 20 or so pages at the end describing his capture by the Americans after a transfer to the western front and his subsequent experiences in U.S. POW camps. I highly recommend it. I also recently read "The Volga Rises In Europe" by Curzia Malaparte, an Italian war correspondant. The book was a little slow in a couple of places, but, he gives a very good account of the initial advance into Russia from Rumania. What I found most interesting about the book was his account of the war in Finland and especially the siege of Leningrad. He has a very good description of the Russian fleet locked in the ice around Kronstadt (sp?) and the role it (the fleet) played in the defense of the city. Very rarely was I so fascinated by something in a book that I read a section of 20-30 pages 2-3 times. I know that most people who play this game started with the western front version. I played it and enjoyed it, but, as I was most interested in the eastern front, I didn't play it as much as I've already played this one. I have enjoyed this game a great deal and will put up with all the little odd things that happen because I know that battlefront will take care of them. If anyone else can recommend good first hand accounts I would also be interested (I have already read "The Forgotten Solder" by Guy Sager). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Read When Titans Clashed, The Road to Stalingrad, and The Road to Berlin, in anticipation of the release of CMBB. Little interest prior to that. All three of these texts are broad, survey type works. They're presented from the Soviet perspective. I'd be interested in finding something presented from the Germans' perspective. When Titans Clashed, in particular, serves up the information with a strong, pro-Soviet flavor, at least that was the impression it left me with. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 8, 2002 Share Posted November 8, 2002 Yes, I'm getting way more interesting in the Ostfront, esp. the massive variety of AFV, OOBs etc. are intriguing. However, I still wish the selection of fronts was reversed so that the West Front was for the improved 2nd CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Originally posted by Vader's Jester: I am reading When Titans Clashed right now. It is quite excellent. I started it because of what several other people on this forum said about it.Me too. I also have a couple other Glantz books on my Christmas list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manstein47 Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 The Ostfront is definitely where the action is. I've been addicted to Eastern front computer games ever since "Kampfgruppe" came out for the Atari 800. For the last couple years I've been playing Close Combat III, which is a very good game, but CMBB is vastly superior. I can recommend a couple of good books -- "Barbarossa (The Russian-German Conflict, 1941-45)", by Alan Clark. Also "Stalingrad" by Antony Beevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast Iron Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Agua some titles from the German perspective: Osterfront 1944/Buchner/Schiffer pup Assault on Moscow 1941/Haupt/Schiffer pup Deadlock Before Moscow:1942-43/Kurowski/ Shiffer Retreat from Leningrad:Army Group North 44-45 Newton/ Shiffer Shiffer has many titles written from the German perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 comrads, the russian front IS ww2! without the efforts by the soviets i shudder to think what the world would be like today. sounds like a communist statement i know, but i believe in giving credit where credit is due... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Phosphorus Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Almost everything happened on the Eastern front. The battles, the casualties, the atrocities, the victories, the defeats, the sieges. So much action, so much drama, so much bloodshed and suffering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Originally posted by tiborhead: It would seem as though I am alone on this on, eh? I seem to recall some people stating that they find BB to be a little less fun, as they are not at all interested in the Ostfront. Some, IIRC, even stated that they would not buy the game based on this bias. No, you aren't alone. I too am a reluctant convert to the Eastern Front. But I'm not convinced yet. I'm playing CMBB mainly because it is a newer, better game of CM. I'm still enjoying the novelty of Russkies vs. Nazi's. I've read "Forgotten Soldier", "War Without Garlands", and a few Osprey Ostfront books to learn more about it. I've got Beevor's "Stalingrad" and the the German general's books on the war yet to go. On the whole, I'd rather be playing Western Front because I relate to it more. But I'm certainly learning lots more about the Eastern Front. Ultimately, I just feel sorry and respect for the millions of individual people who died there for political systems I despise on both sides. Each one of those millions was a real person with hopes, dreams, and families, but they are aggregated into statistics numbering millions. It's difficult to reconcile such huge numbers with the individual stories in each case. But I try, and I do like the personal stories. Russia is simply too vast for me to really comprehend without seeing and experiencing it. Actually, from the accounts of demoralized Germans who experienced neverending flatness and colorlessnes, I don't desire to go there myself. I've already driven across Nebraska. However, I play CMBB for gameplay enjoyment, as well as history. So I'm upping my knowledge to a point where I feel I know enough to understand the history and enjoy what's going on in the game. Still, I'd rather play CM3 western front because I very much enjoy visiting and reliving the history in that area. But I have NO desire to visit Russia anytime in the foreseeable future. History for me comes alive when you enjoy walking the same ground and imagining what it was like there 60 years ago. [ November 08, 2002, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Lawyer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depawel Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 zukkov had it right. The second world war was the ost front. Since I first installed CMBO I couldn't wait until the Great Patriotic War was done under the CM engine (and I was not disappointed either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Originally posted by Vader's Jester: I've always been more interested in the Ostfront Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunflower Farm Boy Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 History for me comes alive when you enjoy walking the same ground and imagining what it was like... You hit the nail dead on the head. I went to Washington DC this past summer for just such a reason. As I wandered around taking in the sights, I couldn't help but picture what it was like way back during the war of 1812 when Canadians came pouring into the American capital and burned it to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVril Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 For anybody interested in the Waffen Grendadiere , Christopher Ailsby's "Hell on the Eastern Front" should be a captivating read to start with, excellent photography too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiborhead Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Thanks for the replies, everyone. Sounds like my "books to read" list has just grown significantly. I would agree that the war was mostly fought and lost in the east, but someone said something to the effect of relating more to the western front, which I seem to agree with. It's not as though I was ever opposed to the Ostfront though. I have read a few of the books mentioned here. Stalingrad and Fall of Berlin, both by Beevor, are the most recent. Oi! How could I forget Cross of Iron!? A work of fiction, but still an excellent book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy76 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by zukkov: comrads, the russian front IS ww2! without the efforts by the soviets i shudder to think what the world would be like today. sounds like a communist statement i know, but i believe in giving credit where credit is due...Well, you could say that WWII was won in Russia. As much as you could say it was won in The Battle of Britain, where the invasion of Britian was "delayed." Or in North Africa, where access to the middle east's oil fields was denied. I also wonder if Germany would have won if they could have thrown all their forces at Russia, instead having of dividing them up between North Africa, Italy, France and Russia...I bet they would have. So my point is: It's called World War II for a reason. And on another point, I wonder if a Nazi regime would have been much worse than the Russian Communist one was. Personally, the problem I've got with CMBB is that I hate both of the causes both sides were fighting for. The Nazi's were dangerous and cruel aggressors. The Communist's formed their "empire" from the ashes of WWII, not to mention the atrocities committed by the Russians as they neared Berlin. All well, it's just a game... And to bring this post back to the topic: Yes, I'm now more interested in the Eastern front. I knew little about it before and could've cared less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Directive#21 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I apologize in advance for this rambling string of consciousness. The scale and scope of the East Front dominates all other theatres of WW2 (and any other land war in history!). For comparison, the German Army suffered more casualties in a single day during the battle of Kursk than the US Army experienced during the entire Viet Nam war. The shear numbers of men, equipment, munitions, civilian casualties etc. are simply mind-boggling. I agree completely that that the war was won and lost in Russia! Long live CMBB... Sure the battle of Britain was significant but if Russia had collapsed in '41 the survival of Britain would have been irrelevant from the German military perspective. Directive #21 [ November 11, 2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Directive#21 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energy76 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Originally posted by zukkov: comrads, the russian front IS ww2! without the efforts by the soviets i shudder to think what the world would be like today. sounds like a communist statement i know, but i believe in giving credit where credit is due...I thought of another thing: What about the Pacific? In theory, anyway, the Pacific was half of World War II. It was probably the largest naval conflict ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewSocialistMan Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I'm reading a whole lot more about it and was shocked to find out that over 80% of Fascist casualties were incurred on the Eastern Front. Kind of flies in the face of the Hitler Channel's interpretation that "American and her allies" won the war against Hitler. The Ruskies did the work. We held the towel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I'm with you on this. I am much more interested in it now and plan to read some books on it soon. Right now I'm too busy "experiencing" it :cool: And yes, The Ruskies lost Ibelieve close to 11 million lives total?? Maybe that's wrong but it's what I recollect. A brutal, desperate, and sad loss indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 A CM:PW (Combat Mission: Pacific War) would be awesome! Can you imagine controlling all the boats and landing troops on the beachheads? aaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwe. . . :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts