Croda Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Can anyone with any knowledge of German flags comment on this particular one? I know nothing about flags in general and as such the specific design on this one tells me nothing other than the obvious swastika on it. It was taken by my wife's grandfather from a house in Heidelburg, Germany in late March/early April '45. What am I curious to know? Anything really. Does this insignia represent something specific, or is it just another decorative German flag. Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbs Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Croda, What a coincidence!! I have in my possession a Nazi wall banner (Red, with white circle containing the swastika) that MY grandfather captured in Heidelburg on 3/30/45. My grandfather was the commanding general who captured Heidelburg, and I wonder if your wife's grandfather was in my grandfather's command. Question: Can you find out what division he was in? p.s. I don't recognize that flag--sorry! [ February 25, 2002, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: wbs ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted February 26, 2002 Author Share Posted February 26, 2002 Originally posted by wbs: Croda, What a coincidence!! I have in my possession a Nazi wall banner (Red, with white circle containing the swastika) that MY grandfather captured in Heidelburg on 3/30/45. My grandfather was the commanding general who captured Heidelburg, and I wonder if your wife's grandfather was in my grandfather's command. Question: Can you find out what division he was in? p.s. I don't recognize that flag--sorry!10th armored division artillery, wire section. That's really odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbs Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Croda, My grandfather was the Asst. Division Commander (later Commanding General) of the 44th Infantry Division. Granddad was, like your wife's grandfather, also an artillery officer and at the time Heidelburg was captured was the Commanding General of the 44th's divisional artillery. It was the 44th's divisional artillery that captured Heidelburg. Do you think that your wife's grandfather would have been of sufficient rank to have interacted with my grandfather at some point in his career? If so, what was his name? What a funny coincidence! [ February 25, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: wbs ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 I don't know anything about the flag, but I bet it scares hell out of people who want to sit on your sofa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted February 26, 2002 Author Share Posted February 26, 2002 Originally posted by wbs: Croda, My grandfather was the Asst. Division Commander (later Commanding General) of the 44th Infantry Division. Granddad was, like your wife's grandfather, also an artillery officer and at the time Heidelburg was captured was the Commanding General of the 44th's divisional artillery. Do you think that your wife's grandfather would have been of sufficient rank to have interacted with my grandfather at some point in his career? If so, what was his name? What a funny coincidence!He was a Staff Sgt in charge of the 10th's DivArty Wire Section, so probably not. He said he never spoke much with men outside of his direct chain of command. Interestingly enough, I believe that after Heidelburg the 10th AD drove deeper into Germany and took the town of Crailsheim but was cutoff by a German counterattack. If I'm not mistaken, it was the 44th ID that cleared the road to allow the 10th out of that jam. Funny how things like that come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbs Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 By Croda: Interestingly enough, I believe that after Heidelburg the 10th AD drove deeper into Germany and took the town of Crailsheim but was cutoff by a German counterattack. If I'm not mistaken, it was the 44th ID that cleared the road to allow the 10th out of that jam. That's really interesting! In my conversations with my grandfather I never heard about that. I would be interested in learning more about that action if I can. Can you direct me to any material on that subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted February 26, 2002 Author Share Posted February 26, 2002 Originally posted by wbs: By Croda: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Interestingly enough, I believe that after Heidelburg the 10th AD drove deeper into Germany and took the town of Crailsheim but was cutoff by a German counterattack. If I'm not mistaken, it was the 44th ID that cleared the road to allow the 10th out of that jam. That's really interesting! In my conversations with my grandfather I never heard about that. I would be interested in learning more about that action if I can. Can you direct me to any material on that subject?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 You might try this site Croda, it is very extensive. I don't recognize the flag. The design looks vaugely like swords or propellers. However the Reich had an endless variety of flags representing anything and everything. Take a look through this site: Flagspot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbs Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Thanks, Croda. That IS interesting. Granddad told me a little bit in the 44th's participation of the Mannheim operation. IIRC they were one of the divisions that was involved in an envelopment manuever there, in order to surround the city. I am familiar with the 44 ID website, but I have never read all of the links. Thanks again for pointing me in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Croda: What am I curious to know? Anything really. Does this insignia represent something specific, or is it just another decorative German flag.I am sure it was made for a very specific purpose/organization. However, Bruno is correct. If there was one thing the Nazis loved, it was flags, banners, and other obvious displays of association with the Nazi Party. I can say for sure I have never seen anything like this one, so I think we can rule out the more obvious catagories of: NSDAP Wehrmacht SS SA RAD TODT HJ Hmmmm... if I had to punt... I would say it is something more or less local to Heidelburg. Perhaps the local Nazi Party had their own flags made up? This is something that I think they were authorized to do. Kinda like in the US how towns and states can have their own flag flown in addition to the Stars and Stripes. The size of the flag also hints at something having to do with a political organization, which tended to do things on grander scale than other organizations. Whatever you have, I suspect it is fairly uncommon. The more common "battle flag", like wbs has, is quite easy to find and is surprisingly inexpensive. I have one tucked away which my father got as a child in a swap for something stupid. The kid's dad was PISSED when he found out, but he honored the swap and instead most likely took it out on his kid And no, I do not suggest leaving such a flag as a soffa cover Steve P.S. Check it over VERY carefully (with Blacklight if necessary) for manufacturing codes. This might help your search. Codes should be found on the edge of the stitching, most likely on the edge which the flag is hung from. [ February 26, 2002, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Big Time Software ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted February 26, 2002 Author Share Posted February 26, 2002 Heh, thanks Bruno and Steve. The size is inordinately large (more than 6 feet in length). I thought it may be something local to Heidelburg, perhaps a well-to-do family being creative and showing their support for 'the cause.' Bruno's site didn't turn up anything other than the fact that the color would make me think it is either Army-based or locally political in nature, as the other brances all seemed to use colors other than red as a base. Thanks for all the insight, and no, it is not the typical sofa cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 The white thing under the swastika might be some device of heraldry, perhaps from the coat of arms of some city? Maybe looking through German heraldry lists might turn it up. OTOH, it might just be a stylized version of the white circle normally behind the swastika. I must admit, however, that before its snowflake shape became clear, I thought it was the Imperial Chrysanthemum of Japan and figured the flag was made to commemorate the Axis treaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Dammit BH, you beat me to it. Also, Heidelburg was a university town. It might well be the wall flag for one of those dueling fraternaties the Germans are fond of. The Nazis were really into subsuming any organization which existed in their state, and I suspect fraternaties were no different. You might be looking at a nazified version of the old SAE flag. . . WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 It could be a daisy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 I don't think that it even a Gemran flag at all. And i do not beleive that is from the 2nd world war. The swastika before the nazi's got a hold of it was a universal good luck symbol in many cultures. You can find swastikas in ancient jewish temples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 My spelling was off, sorry i just got in from having a few cold ones.....i meant to say that it is not a German Flag in my opinion. I can't pin point where it is from, but it certainly is not from the nazi party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 My first thought was some local allies of the Nazi's, or just Nazi's trying to show some local patriotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Iron Chef Saki wrote: I can't pin point where it is from, but it certainly is not from the nazi party. You really have no idea how little you know, do you? First of all, it was captured by Allied forces in Germany. Second, the Nazis probably had a couple hundred different flags with Swasitkas on them, to which I will add that probably nobody on this Forum is an authority on. Third, if this is from some other country which uses/used Swastikas, kindly figure out which one would have HUGE red colored banners made around 1940s and in Germany before you jump to such a wild conclusion. It is most certainly Nazi made, most likely for a local political purpose. My guess is, as I said before, some sort of regional/city NSDAP flag. Steve [ February 26, 2002, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: Big Time Software ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Originally posted by Big Time Software: Iron Chef Saki wrote: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I can't pin point where it is from, but it certainly is not from the nazi party. You really have no idea how little you know, do you? First of all, it was captured by Allied forces in Germany. Second, the Nazis probably had a couple hundred different flags with Swasitkas on them, to which I will add that probably nobody on this Forum is an authority on. Third, if this is from some other country which uses/used Swastikas, kindly figure out which one would have HUGE red colored banners made around 1940s and in Germany before you jump to such a wild conclusion. It is most certainly Nazi made, most likely for a local political purpose. My guess is, as I said before, some sort of regional/city NSDAP flag. Steve</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 BTS.........if i know so little......then where is your answer to the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 If you were realy smart, you might had guessed it was from prototype nazi flag from circa 1920's...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 BTS in saying i have no idea how little i know......that was a wild statement. I would hope you have a more intimate knowledge of World War 2 then i do, i mean if you don;t you realy lucked out with the accuracy of your game. But if you would like ot debate say the Punic Wars or the Napoleanic Wars or the Hundred years war ect, i would guess you would be eclipsed by my knowledge. In any case, what does it realy matter? It does'nt make me any smarter then you if i read more books on the Punic wars then you. Just because i know how to wire a house or machines and you don't does'nt make you slow or me brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 May be a nazi gardener association or some flower power stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Yes, of course! The flag is obviously the one used by the local Heidelburg daisy society symbolising their support of The Party and always flown every third Sunday while discussing the new strains of daisy that could be grown at appropriate times of the year over tea and pumpkin scones. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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