Hill 312 AAR - warning, spoiler info

Silvio Manuel · October 7, 2002

*******SPOILER WARNINGS for "Hill 312"*******

OK, this was my first full CMBB battle besides the Tutorial (I'm also in the beginning of Yelnia on the Demo).

Setup:

Firebase:

Left 4x MG34 HMG at default w/ HQ unit

Left 2x 81mm mortar at default w/ HQ unit

Maneuver Group:

2x Rifle 41 Pns (4 sq, 1 50mm mortar ea.)

-designated Pn 1 and Pn 2

1x Company HQ with Tank Hunter & FT Teams

-designated CHQ Group

Early:

Advanced the Pns 1 & 2 up the left woods, using MTC command. Crossed road w/ 1 Team from each Pn, drew no fire, then crossed w/ the rest of teach Pn. CHQ Group trailed them by a little bit. I kept advancing w/ 1 Team in the vanguard for each platoon. I moved both Pns up to where they were just even w/ the far end of the left Barbed Wire. My plan was to advance 1 squad, split into Teams across open ground, using the Advance command. Hopefully this will draw fire that I can smash w/ all my forces. My main worry is that there is a Soviet Pn or MG on my left flank as I cross the open ground. I had considered advancing all the way to the back of the map to secure my left flank for the crossing, but I decided that I would try to expose such threats when I cross the first Rifle Team.

I then discovered the left flank Bunker MG, and one Inf? unit. I was happy to see that the Bunker's orientation means that I can slip behind it's firing arc.

Middle:

I was able to get 3/5 men in one team all the way in such that they are 9m from the back of the bunker. They ran across a minefield at the edge of the Wire, and lost two men, but the withering MG34, squad, and 50mm mortar fire is keeping the enemy's heads down. I get a Pn as reinforcements, deep into my far left corner, they will move in and also assault from the rear.

The 1 team I have behind the Bunker has used one Grenade? Grenade bundle? and HIT it but no KO, even turns later. They seem reluctant to use a he 2nd one. This prompts me to swap my Coy HQ over to command Pn 2 (which is firebasing as Pn 1 advances to up to the trees before the Wire). Pn 2's HQ will command the newly designated "Ordnance Group"- one detached Rifle Team, plus the FT and Tank Hunter teams, who will try to advance to the rear of the Bunker and KO it w/ their copious ordnance. My MG34 and Pn2/firebase fire has caused a Maxim to rout, and it is slain by my nearby troops. Somewhere around now the Soviet platoon shows up in the woods, but in piecemeal fashion and my troops (in firebase, Pn#2) manage to just turn around and chop them up w/ few losses.

Those FT's are actually useful now! I use Move and Run to get him in, and he burns down the left Bunker from behind- w00T! At this time there's about a full Soviet Pn sighted in the trenches that are being lambasted by all my fury- my two 81mm's have joined in now and are making nice "poof" noises accompanied by the glorious puffs of hot lead. A Maxim is spotted and the far right in the distance and does some good supression work on me.

By now Pn 3 (reinforcement one) is behind the now-dead bunker along w/ my Ordnance Group.

End:

With evil glee I advance Pn 1 through the trench, but the real fun is moving in my FT to uproot the Sov Pn. The squads die and rout, but the FT burns up the HQ, routing him, so now there's nothing left.

I decide to Move one of my MG34's a bit, since the non-default location I had him in from Setup was kind of "keyhole" at that time I finally see the Pillbox MG and rightside Bunker MG...they had not fired until I moved the MG34 across open ground.

I move Pn2 in, and a squad takes out the Bunker and slays its crew. I race my Tank Hunter team up to the last Bunker at turn 26 of the scheduled 25 turns, and the game ends at that point, the Bunker survived.

It was an 86-14 score, I had about 30cas (9 KIA), the AI had about 130cas (30 KIA) and 2 dead Bunkers & 2 dead mortars. What the Sovs perhaps should have done is put one of the Bunkers behind the ridge in Reverse Slope- if so my attack probably would have failed, since my MG34's and 81mm's were out of LOS.

I didn't have much trouble at all as long as I suppressed the heck out of any spotted units, which required area fire early on. I got 3 total cas. inflicted by my 4 MG34's, but their suppression was great. I really like the trenches, they will be a tough fortification to crack. Best of all I like that I advanced the FT unit across open ground, and used it to kill a Bunker and rout an HQ...tough to do in CMBO.

I think that Hill 312 is definitely a nice small battle- it serves as a good intro to the perils of crossing open ground in suppression-friendly CMBB.

Cheers to BF.C- great game.

EDITED: b/c I forgot that there was even a Sov platoon in the woods! I didn't veer off too far left, so I guess they never knew I was coming, until they first spotted my teams heading across open ground near the bunker. Good luck for me!

[ October 15, 2002, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

Silvio Manuel · October 7, 2002

Anyone else have any opinions/AARs for Hill 312?

Speedy · October 7, 2002

I think that's about par for the course.

Agua · October 7, 2002

Yeah, I thought it was nice small scenario as well. I left the HMGs and the 81mm in default setup, as you did, then just pulled "move to contact" all the way around to the back side of the hill. I took out the bunkers going from North (I think) to right and used the cover arcs with the HMGs to suppress the Russians in the trenches while manuevering / suppressing with the two (later three) platoons. Took out the third bunker on the last turn. I can't remember if it was turn 26-27. A fun little scenario where you get to witness the usefulness of the trench assault and cover arcs quite a bit.

Silvio Manuel · October 15, 2002

Bumped for Herr MonkeyTits.

Affentitten · October 15, 2002

Thanks.

SPOILER

=

Did no-one else run into the strong Soviet platoon in the bottom left corner? I went wide and deep on my flanking run and hit them. Since I was using MTC, everybody stopped and began a plinking competition. I broke contact (using "assault" to run away) after a couple of rounds when I realised how many there were, but of course the firefight had sapped casualties and morale and generally disordered my advance.

Cameroon · October 15, 2002

**SPOILERS**

.

That's pretty much how I went about it, though I used MTC and cleared the woods. About the time I was getting ready to wipe out the Soviet force back there, the reinforcements showed up. They finished the sandwich, and my assault went up the hill in good order.

Two platoons went up to wipe out the defenders while the third plus support elements (in default positions) provided suppressive area fire.

Regarding the comment about the placement of the bunkers... personally I think a more prudent approach would have been for the defenders to torch that obvious line of approach through the woods. I kept looking at that going, "Well of course no one is going to assault up that hill. There's a perfectly good stretch of woods to waltz through"

Zakalwe · October 15, 2002

Originally posted by Affentitten:
Thanks.

SPOILER
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Did no-one else run into the strong Soviet platoon in the bottom left corner? I went wide and deep on my flanking run and hit them. Since I was using MTC, everybody stopped and began a plinking competition. I broke contact (using "assault" to run away) after a couple of rounds when I realised how many there were, but of course the firefight had sapped casualties and morale and generally disordered my advance.

My second platoon ran into them as I was swinging wide around the flank. My troops got carved up pretty bad, immediately one squad was almost wiped out, but my other platoon was already positioned to assault the hill, so I just tried to contain the enemy platoon (as changing plans in mid-stride is usually a disaster). Luckily the reinforcements showed up at excatly the right time, and hit the Soviets in the back at the moment my platoon was going to be smashed. In the end I managed a major victory, despite having three of the MG34s jammed at one point.

Has anyone experimented with moving the machinegun platoon or the mortars? They seem to be pretty optimally placed by default.

Zak

akdavis · October 15, 2002

I stumbled right into the Soviet platoon in the woods and had one of my platoons decimated in a matter of seconds. With the reinforcements, I still managed to slog it out to a tactical victory. Unfortunately, several of the Russian squads I thought I had routed of the map showed up in my rear just as I was approaching the hilltop defenses and proceeded to tear up my Coy HQ, mortar, FTs and THs.

Atlas_TH · October 15, 2002

Nice AARs. BTW, did any of you offer your review of the scenario at the Scenario Depot?

[ October 15, 2002, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: Atlas_TH ]

P5 · October 15, 2002

I moved my troops to the hill from the right flank. Just crawling outside from the firing range of that bunker. Everything went ok to the first flag. While starting to move my troops on the hill to take the second flag in the center, I was hitted by a quite heavy Russian artillery rounds (or at least it seemed like a heavy rounds), that eventually panicked and routed half of my troops. Never got to the second flag in the center.

Reinforcement troops were able to destroy and rout the Russians in the woods and got very close to the flag in the left side, making it neutral.

With a last remaining effort, I ordered few troops that were still in a quite good condition, to run along the trench towards the center flag and making it neutral.

It was a draw. I certainly will play this one again.

CMplayer · October 15, 2002

First time I played it against the AI I took 4 casualties. I guess I got lucky. I wiped out the Russians in the woods. Then sneaked a Tank Hunter team up the back slope of the hill, under overwatch, while the Coy HQ set up with the 2" mortars. The tank hunter arrived unscathed and took out the wooden bunker pronto. The rest of my force went up along the same rout as the TH team till I had about 2 platoons assembling near the destroyed wooden bunker. The third low ammo platoon who had done most of the work against the Russians in the woods remained to guard the Coy HQ and the 2" mortar teams who had followed the infantry through the woods.

The platoon HQ down with the support teams took a short walk outside his building which cause the main pillbox to reveal its location.

The combination of area fire from the MGs , 81mm mortars and 2" mortars kept the Russians on the ridge from returning effective fire. A squad advanced along the trenches and destroyed the Russians with grenades, while the rest moved slowly forwards along the ridge.

Here a serious failing of the tacAI was revealed. Routing Russians exited their trench and ran for the back board edge (suicide) rather than retreating laterally, in the trench, away from the threat. This is symptomatic of an unfortunate weakness in the game's way of conceptualizing infantry.

Anyhow, just as the flamethrowers were getting ready to do their work the enemy autosurrendered. Total victory.

CMplayer · October 15, 2002

Originally posted by akdavis:
Unfortunately, several of the Russian squads I thought I had routed of the map showed up in my rear just as I was approaching the hilltop defenses and proceeded to tear up my Coy HQ, mortar, FTs and THs.

I think this shows how well the scenario is designed, as a kind of a puzzle to play against the AI. The AI as defender likes to move troops towards the flags, especially if the flag is threatened. Because of the placement of those Russians, that means that they will probably end up 'counterattacking' your assault force from behind if you turn up the hill without making contact, or without destroying them first.

[ October 15, 2002, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: CMplayer ]

Peterk · October 16, 2002

Looks like I'm the only one who did this a little differently??? I set-up my two platoons from the left side all the way over to the right side (that's right - the open part of the map).

Reasons?

1. With only 2 platoons, one succesful Russian ambush in the heavy woods on the left and my day is ruined. And if I were the Russians, you can bet I'd have at least a platoon hiding in those woods as far forward as possible and they would cause damage.

2. I noticed that the scenario designer had extended the set-up zone on the right about 50m farther forward than on the left. Hmmm....a little less space to cover to get to the top of the hill, and since it's open I _might_ be able to move faster than in the woods. ALmost like a little bonus to tempt me to try it. OK...I accept.

The big question is. Was there enough cover over on the right to get 2 platoons through in time??? I thought I'd take the chance - there were scattered trees and little patches of forest and one house beside the road that I thought would do just the trick.

Turns 1-15:

FOr the first 5 turns I had all HMGs and all mortars except one fire into suspected (really obvious) locations at the top of the hill firing blind. I let the MGs go with area fire 'til ammo was at ~50 and then I started being more selective and turned some off to preserve ammo for the end game. The only enemy popped was the wooden bunker on the right. Good news. Looks like there's not much up there! This turned out to be the only enemy of consequence for the 1st 15 turns. It was slow going, almost single file along the road, one or two units at a time in short bursts of advance or run from cover to cover until we were out of the arc of that bunker. It took forever, but was very suspenseful. Only mistake was when I gave a HQ a 20m run and he got nailed early in his move and broke along with 1 squadwho decided to go with him even though he was safe in some scattered trees and wasn't asked to move (bastards!). Luckily, the other 3 squads carried on admirably on their own.

I got lucky and early on knocked out an MG in the trench on top with long-range HMG fire from the buildings in back. I was dreading taking on the guys in trenches, but it looks like they will break fairly easy in spite of the trench. <???>

I learned my lesson - never run in front of a pillbox. The advance command was a tiny bit slower and tired the guys a bit but not one casualty was inflicted on the guys who advanced despite coming under fire several times. I had to rest them after the advance a few times, but the column of advance was so narrow due to lack of cover, it was very rare to be able to move the same unit twice in a row anyways.

Turns 15-22

One platoon is in the last cover on the slope behind the pillbox on the right in good order (albeit out of command). The 2nd platoon is following close behind. I decided not to advance the flamethrower against the pillbox and he didn't move once in the battle. Platoon hit a minefield on the right by accident coming in just a little bit too close to the fortified area as they were sneaking to the rear of the bunker. Damn! should have thought about that possibility.

The reinforcements coming in on the left were an absolute godsend!!! Simulataneous attacks on both the right and left of the enemy position!!! If I had started on the left, I would have had to have rolled accross the defenses on the top of the hill from left to right and maybe not take out the pillbox on the far right due to time. But now I have a pincer with great crossfire possibilities as long as things don't fall apart.

Turn 23 - 25

OK. Here goes. Platoon on right and 1 platoon on the left taking on the wooden bunkers. Both attacks succeed. Platoon on right starts to come under mortar fire, but the HMGs in the back use up the last of their ammo to take care of it as well as a bunch of other units which are beginning to rout out of the trench.

Turn 26-30

The reinforcement platoon on the left occupies defensive positions since it seems some squads are coming out of the forest which I bypassed (Hah! I knew it) to counter-attack.

The platoon on the right encounters little resistance after the mortar attacks ended and advance down the trench towards the center pillbox. (Lesson learned - advnacing in a trench tires your guys out _really_ quickly - should've just moved). I expected the center pillbox to be a tough nut to crack but in turned out only needing one hit before the crew abandonned.

Russians in total rout. Game ends in 31 turns. Score 94/6. Good fight. Nice puzzle.

jamgra · October 16, 2002

Originally posted by Peterk:
Russians in total rout. Game ends in 31 turns. Score 94/6. Good fight. Nice puzzle.

31 turns!?! Bah! My men were supped and napping by then!! Well...not really. I ran out of time in 26 turns, you lucky bastard!!

-Jim

JonS · October 16, 2002

I played this one as Germans in a PBEM. I used pretty much the same approach as PeterK, for pretty much the same reasons, although in addition to what he said, its also worth noting that the hill is so open that all routes end with a long advance, uphill, over open ground.

Still, putting myself in my enemies shoes I thought "huh - who would ever be dumb enough to cross all that open ground over there? It'd make much more sense to use all this lovely woods/covered approach over here. So, i would weight my defence over here."

So, of course I did the opposite Also, as Peter pointed out, the setup area extended forward in two horns, cutting out much of the open ground that the German has to cover.

It almost worked too. My opponent had indeed weighted his defence to the (my perspective) left, and was caught badly out of position by my approach up the right. Still, he managed to arrange a useful defence that kept me out of the trench line and crushed the two pns.

But, when the third pn finally showed up pretty-much everything he had had moved over to that side, so the new guys had a fairly easy approach up the back of the hill.

Game ended around turn 28 in a draw and I was happy with that. Given a few more turns I may have been able to eek out a minor victory, but it would have been tricky.

[ October 16, 2002, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: JonS ]

Eden Smallwood · October 16, 2002

I saw a big brouhaha about Hill 312.

I went to the coffee shop.

I got a large light coffee, added enough milk to cool it down, and fired up the iBook.

I had been trying to avoid actually *reading* the spoilers, and I then realized I had completely succeeded, because I wasn't sure which side I was supposed to play. So I reasoned that it takes more brains to attack than defend, so it looks like I got it right this time. ( In Cemetery Hill, I played defenders, but I should have played attackers? )

I also thought the mortars and MGs looked really good, and I *almost* sent the whole army up the forest side, but that was too... it was bad Feng Shui. So I split the force equally, one up the forest, the other spread through nearest bits of wood on the right. Additionally, I stole one HQ and mortar for the right, in the same type of setup.

The guys playing Robin Hood I advance really slowly- kinda silly, and really burned me later, but I was trying to play Reality instead of Cmbb, and also I was sick of carrying flamethrowers all over Asia just to have them die at the dawn's first light.

Sure, I was surprised by Soviets way down in the corner of Sherwood, but with the proper leap-frogging or caterpilling or whatever it was not a big deal. And nicely the Lost Patrol showed up just in time to surprise their backsides pretty hard. But two or three minutes had been used up with those shenanigans, and I'll just *bet* that was the point. Darn.

I showed some weakness there too- I couldn't resist using the flames, (it was cold!), and I thought it wouldn't hurt for the anti-tank team to throw their weight into the melee too. So, AT team gone, flames are down two shots. But so what about flames? I'm heading ALL the way around the back, so what are those pillboxes going to do, turn around?

Time for a refill on the coffee- ahhh, that's good.

Meanwhile, my big MGs are playing games with the Amazing Disappearing Pillboxes, and the Magical Teleporting Infantry Sounds. Even in wide open looking ground in plain sight these Bolsheviks can just bounce around like some sadistic kind of shooting gallery. It's just not going well for the A Team over on the right. On the first turn, one squad will take TWO casualties JUST CROSSING THE ROAD.

Men, your job is now to merely keep those Soviets *entertained* while B-Team goes around to knock on the back door. A-Team would finally get to the bottom of the hill, but all the MG and mortar fire at ghosts is just not enough to hold down those teleporting Soviets.

Back in the forest, I've dropped off an HQ and a mortar along the way, just across from the hill, and I've moved almost the whole platoon plus the Lost Patrol around the back to the very very edge of the back of the hill.

The mortar and HQ can see the trench, and they're dropping hard rain on it. We've got a bazillion German UberVets within meters of the flag, staring straight down that trench the long way, so next turn it's Rushin' Russians. Good grief, I've even got my FlaminSpittinTroopen over there intact! This is going to be *good*.

Game Over- Tactical Defeat.

Eden

CMplayer · October 16, 2002

Originally posted by Eden Smallwood:

Game Over- Tactical Defeat.

Dividing your force like that was a bad idea: bad, BAD, BAD!.

Now write it out 100 times before sunrise or I'll cut your balls off.

Hersir · October 16, 2002

*Spoilers*

-

I sent one platoon plus Company HQ as well as flamer and assault team through the woods on move to contact orders. The secod platoon advanced and sneaked by the road to the patches of woods and scattered woods and hid there as close as possible to the trenches. There were some fire from the Wooden bunker and a HMG in the left wood but no casualties were caused and the men were only alerted. The MG's and the 81mm mortars went into hiding in the default positions.

In the woods on my left flank I found the Russians so my men stopped and shot them up a bit while I moved two squads to flank them. This broke the Russians and they never stopped running until the third platoon joined my forces and wiped them up. I lost a few men and some ammo but wasn't that badly hurt especially with the welcome sight of platoon three. I advanced up the rear of the bunker to my left and from the depression next to it in the open I assaulted with one platoon (the one with less ammo) plus the assault team and FT while the others and the 50mm spotted with the Coy HQ supported with area fire towards the bunker and woods. The 81mm mortars and MG's suppressed the trenches and woods next to the leftmost bunker.

The bunker was knocked out by the FT and I moved both platoons in teh woods suppressing everything in sight while the platoon that was hiding in teh patches of woods by the road advanced and assualted into the trenches out of sight of the middle bunker. After that I rolled up the line in alternating bounds with my platoons.

A nice scenario indeed. Good learning tool.

Eden Smallwood · October 16, 2002

Originally posted by CMplayer:
Dividing your force like that was a bad idea: bad, BAD, BAD!.

Now write it out 100 times before sunrise or I'll cut your balls off.

Dividing my force like that was a bad idea: bad, BAD, BAD!.

Man, this forum is hard love!

Eden

CMplayer · October 16, 2002

Okay, I'll let it go...this time.

Peterk · October 16, 2002

Hey, he only wrote it 99 times!

Foobar · October 21, 2002

SPOILER

-

I tip my hat to Berli, the dark one.

I played this and assaulted through the woods on the left, with a Coy cdr and 2 squads feinting an attack on the right.

My opponent decimated the lead platoon on the left, and fnord they were holding their own against the 2nd platoon. Just as I was about to request a ceasefire, that recon platoon that had been missing from the nights patrol showed up. They assaulted the russian infantry from behind, and completely routed them. They are now sweeping the rest of the woods, while my remaining damaged platoon, and feint attack on the right proceed.

Well done Berli! This scenario is truly evil, and ideal for head to head play..

Chad Harrison · October 21, 2002

Real fun scenario. I played it for the first time last night as the Germans. I moved all my men around to the right flank of the hill. I moved one platoon up the hills front drawing fire. I moved the other platoon around the back. Worked like a charm. The rear platoon took out the pillbox, and two MG's. After that, it was a cake walk.

Chad

Silvio Manuel · October 21, 2002

Originally posted by Peterk:

Turns 15-22

One platoon is in the last cover on the slope behind the pillbox on the right in good order (albeit out of command). The 2nd platoon is following close behind. I decided not to advance the flamethrower against the pillbox and he didn't move once in the battle. Platoon hit a minefield on the right by accident coming in just a little bit too close to the fortified area as they were sneaking to the rear of the bunker. Damn! should have thought about that possibility.

Ouch! That kind of pitfall is why I generally lead w/ both teams from one split squad...to find the nasty party favors first- MGs, mines, etc. In my attack, I hit one AP minefield w/ one team, but only took 2 cas and they continued thru b/c I had the covering Sovs suppressed.

Hill 312 AAR - warning, spoiler info

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