Rodimzew Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Is there any dirty trick in knocking out KTs ???? Or is the only chance to avoid them ??? I have a problem with about TEN of them (5000pts QB) in a dec44 City environment. I tried to engage them with tanks, engineers (DCs), bazookas, 8inch artillery....for nothing... sorry not for nothing, one is immobile... I lost almost all tanks (jumbos with tungstencore, m36s). Ammo is getting low.... my enemy has lost a lot of infantry btw. How to proceed ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 If you are out of tanks then you are SOL... If you have any bazooka men left I'd try to sneak up as close to the sides/rear of the KT's as possible and let them try. That is also the best approach if you still had tanks. Button up his tanks every turn, you might at least shock one or two of them. You say he's almost out of infantry, so just take your troops to the flags and keep them out of the line of fire of those KT's and hunker down, he'll have to get close with his tanks to turn the flgs and you might be able to close assault the tank. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Plink and run, plink and run. KTs have slow turret rotation, so it'll be better if you can stay mobile, engage from VERY close range from behind. Hopefully, you've got FTs, zooks, gammon bombs, rifle grenades, or *something* left. Maybe the worst thing you can do is have a squad stay put in the top floor of a building futilely chucking grenades at a buttoned-up KT for a minute, basically asking for the tank to smash the building while you're in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 For future references, I recommend the following weapons against the King Tiger: Super Pershing - at ranges under 1,000 metres. Sherman Firefly - the mutt's nuts with tungsten. Nope. That's it. There is one ray of hope, however. The damn fool has got an open-country tank with a slow turret rotation in a city. That's played right into your hands - or at least it would have done if you had mentioned this game to us about 20 turns ago Use your remaining tanks at full speed - don't hunt, just fast move them Work them in pairs, never alone. Sneak or crawl bazooka units into buildings where Tigers have to pass. Don't bother hitting a King Tiger from the front, either. Sides (straight on) or rear. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Carrot Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 I think you need a butt shot with a zook to hurt a KT. I know you need to with a PIAT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 And if you play Herr Uberpanzer (10 KTs?!) again, in another city map, consider American Airborne. They get some SMGs (useful for the close-in fighting), loads of rifle grenades / gammon bombs (useful for ambushing tanks), and still have available MG and zook teams for support. The major alternative might be British for the smokeless PIAT, but be warned that it can jam just when you had the perfect shot lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 how did he get points for 10 uberpanzers? you must of had it on unrestricted. anywho, the best way to get them for future reference is the firefly, by far and hands down. in your situation, just sit on the flag. theres not much he can do about that with those beasts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 I wonder why you guys recommend the expensive and quite immobile Firefly over the other 17-pdr stuff in this situation. The Achilles and even Archer have much less armour, but against a King Tiger it doesn't really make a difference whether you have a Sherman or a TD, it's the gun that count and the cheaper vehicles make for more guns. The towed 17pdr in light doses is a must as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 I agree that the other 17pdr weapons are good, but for me the Firefly combines the anti-tank weapon I need with the speed and anti-infantry capability I want. I specifically suggested the Firefly because it's not open-topped (like the archer), which is a real risk in a city environment where Rodimzew is playing. I certainly like vehicles like the Challenger, and in a city environment, playing as British, I would also pick half a dozen Daimler armoured cars, whose 40mm cannons can really ruin your day. As Americans, I'd pick some Hellcats - 55mph! I was simply trying to pick something that would be suitable for his game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Don't mean to sound like I'm going against the grain here, but here's some views of what CAN go wrong when your playing against a human Axis player using the second biggest Fat Cat of them all... the King Tiger. Alot of players acknowledge that using tanks, heavies in particular, in urban settings is a recipe for disaster. Dangerous, yes, but there are some situations where tanks and esp. heavies are quite deadly even in urban combat. One such situation is this: Long streets/avenues with a straight shot down. Park a King Tiger down the very end staring down the long street with an LMG42 team or two on "hide" in some buildings to act as spotters. The Allied player is sure to try to button the Big Cat so nearby infantry are a huge bonus for spotting and close defense. Any enemy armor crossing the street risks death by '88 if they loiter or certain death if they dare to face off against a King. Why does this work for the Koenigstiger? It forces a smaller firing arc and negates the time of tank adjusts its aim. A good crew will cut this time down alot further for quickly killing something. Another reason is that it forces the enemy to engage you while you face them with your strongest armor... to the front. If you play your cards right you can set up nasty ambushes/defenses on the tank's flanks for those lively flankers out there. Now, as for your personal situation... there's no way to go around this, but your f****d. If your opponent has any slight idea how to coordinate what few infantry he has left to act as scouts while he brings in his immense firepower to pummel anything he finds can be discouraging. Use the terrain to mask your approach to get a flank/rear shot on a KT or two with your AT teams. In this endeavor the KTs are a huge threat, yes, but IMO unbuttoned armor or worse, nearby enemy infantry will kill your chances for sneaking a shot in with your zook/PIAT. My suggestion? Whether on the attack or defense, reign in what forces you have back together and reorganize ASAP. If you feel confident with your setup and if you think the "psychology" aspect of the game can be tilted to your favor you may consider mounting a last ditch attack/counterattack to go for a reachable objective or to inflict some casualties to salvage some of your honor. Other considerations can be this: Could your opponent be more worried about your zooks since he doesn't have much infantry to root them all out? Are his King Tigers all strung out with some loners? Has he hesitated in pursuing you with his superior force? Lots of factors to consider in your situation but remember this: Never be afraid to be bold. Some opponents can be deceived if you act bold with a lousy force, thinking you were holding back alot of stuff or somefink... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Oh, one option to add is assaulting lone armor with infantry. Provided you don't have any bazookas or such, this is your last option should you desire to remove a King Tiger or two. Assaulting ANY tank is a dangerous business. Be careful of some panzers that possess close defense mortars. The Koenigstiger possesses these little things. Should you desire to assault the armor, if you've got engineers they're your best bet. Otherwise, good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodimzew Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 Thx a lot to all....so i won't hesitate and go for it...after running around with some infantry on close quarters he at least took back the KTs during our last turn....May also be an indication for an arty strike.... BTW : The OOB was set to unrestricted....i will not agree on that in the future :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Well, keep in mind if you set it to force selections to armor don't be surprised to see this again. Seems you met the fury of a Heavy Panzer Company. Better luck next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87H Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 BTW : The OOB was set to unrestricted....i will not agree on that in the future " Well this can be fun but remember in the future that if given the opportunity people will use the uber weapons. Just expect it. I ran into a nasty QB last winter where we did not agree to an Arty setting. I learned the hard way as I watched round after round of naval arty land on the town I was to defend. The whole town crumbled and so did my troops. From then on I usually use Panther 76 rules. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 If you play someone who has a tendency to buy the heavy armor all i can say is .....Hellcats, Hellcats and more Hellcats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 I really love Hellcats... the 37mm FkaK or 57mm PaK38 with their high ROF can rip into them like a virgin running through a whorehouse. Even the 20mm can sneeze and kill them. Just don't go overboard on the Hellcats, they're not that great when attacking infantry/AT defenses and they're too flimsy. The M10 is a more balanced buy for US TD's IMO. A 57mm or better is needed to penetrate reliably frontally. [ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Warmaker ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 If I'm using Hellcats, I'll fast move them everywhere. Whilst the M10 might have better armour on the front, it can't maneuver as fast, its turret speed is pitiful, and its turret armour seems pretty similar. Hitting a Hellcat can be quite a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Not even a dirty trick is required. If you have any arty left, try smoking the whole area where his KTs are, rushing in your remaining armour and infantry on two flanks, and then enjoying the fun watching those slow turrets try to get you when the smoke clears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodimzew Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 Short update ... The KTs are now dispersed around the city, where my infantry clears the building blocks. It's no easy job (i assume my enemy reads this site carefully) because he keeps some tanks in positions out of the city, where they have firing lanes along the roads I keep him buttoned with mortars and .50s so it's not very effective for him However, he must get into the city to reach the flags...I'm waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Okay, didn't know you were defending inside a town. Don't keep much of your infantry to the outer buildings, maybe just as sentries. Another thing to be careful of is if he tries to level buildings that he suspects you may use for strongpoints i.e. multi-storied heavy buildings. Positioning your troops is a psychological game in itself. If you feel he's really low on infantry, first chances you get rip apart his infantry. With an even more depleted infantry force this will force him to move his panzers into the town. If you've got the AT resources of 'zooks/ATGs and ways to button them up then the scales are a little more in your favor. Be careful of multiple tanks operating together giving overwatch (one moves and 2-3 other tanks sit still and watch). Be patient, don't engage unless the odds aren't as lopsided towards the Germans. I'll be honest, it doesn't look like you'll win if this guy plays his panzer cards right. He's got you on the ground pretty much but give him a broken nose and some teeth to go with it. It's all about how you do it in the tough times! And happy schooling! [ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Warmaker ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Oh and if you try to attack his infantry, whatever you do: Don't hang around too long. If you inflicted good casualties in a few good short attacks then fall back. Never know when a King Tiger will turn the corner to avenge their comrades. An '88 smacking against your building won't be a pleasant experience to watch, much less for your men to experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 A nifty trick that I learned (the hard way) back in the Last Defense days, was that if the KT is caught in the open and you have 2 speedy TDs (a la M-18), you can sometimes get them circling the KT, one clockwise, the other counter-clockwise. Eventually, one or both will get the flank or rear shot you need to KO the KT. Admittedly, all conditions have to be right for this to occur: terrain open but with enough nearby cover that you can get close without getting killed; no supporting German armor/Infantry AT hanging about to plink the TDs; etc. But, it's great fun when it comes together. Even being on the losing end of it, I had to laugh at the movie and my stupidity for not having adequate support for the armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 As soon as I figure out how to post an image, I will show you an instance where I was playing a scenario I created called Bazooka Hunt and a HQ unit killed a King Tiger and one crew member using two grenades 25 meters from the front of the tank. No kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 If you really really really want to play dirty with this same opponent next game then spend as many points as your opponent did on KT's on M8 HMC's... For the 2860 points 10 regular KT's cost him you can get 49 M8's and still have 18 points left for a sharpshooter. 49 M8's will force his KT's crews to bail and then you can terrorize his infantry for the rest of the game. Don't believe me? Buy a large, even number of M8's & KT's, let the AI run the German side and very aggressively pursue the KT's whenever you spot them, I mean rush the suckers with as many M8's as you can and get on their flanks and rears. Move the M8's in packs of 10 and you can deal with just about anything you may run across. You'll be surprised. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 ... which is a reason you should not be too heavy in one category. Besides, when the Germans actually did employ a whole friggin Tiger company or larger, you can bet there were lots of supporting units. I'd count myself lucky to have a platoon of Panthers and other such Cats in a premade scenario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts