CM in Mac OS X - how long to wait and how many more excuses?

[tonymac]

Dear Battlefront

I have purchased two of the CM series but now lack a Mac which will play them. As is well known, modern Macs cannot boot into Mac OS 9. Apple made its intentions quite clear in this regard but we still lack an OS X version. I don't care whose fault it is and I am not interested in the blame games. It would seem that I have done my dough cold!

I have read that a new game engine is being developed which would run on OS X. How much longer will we have to wait? Has Battlefront abandoned the Mac platform. I would appreciate a reply which does not:

1. try to shoot the messanger;

2. engage in more blaming someone else;

3. dish out swarmy spin pretending to be an answer.

Could you please give a date when a Mac OS X version will be available. Surely your business plans cannot be so bad as not to be able to provide one. If they they are then Mac users had better take our business elsewhere.

Out of patience.

Tony

[Moon]

Hello Tony,

you're confusing things. There are no plans to make the current CM games run on OS X, and there never were. We made that, and the reasons for it, very clear from day one. Trying to make CM1-3 compatible with OS X would distract valuable resources which are better spent on programming the new engine. (One day there will be an OS XI, and we will not make CM1-3 compatible with it, either.)

The new engine is more than just a port of the current CM games to OS X, it will be the foundation of a totally new game (or series of games) that won't have much to do with the current CM series.

As for why the current CM series isn't compatible with OS X, and cannot easily be made compatible, we've stated those reasons often enough, but here's another nice summary that we send out to people who, in a more friendly way, ask us about OS X compatibility via email:

"Because Apple decided pretty much at the last minute of developing OS X to pull full Rave 3D (which is the API the CM games were coded to run under) support we will not be able to natively support it until we completely rewrite the game from the ground up.

We are not thrilled by this either but Apple is the one that decided to no longer support Rave 3D properly with no prior warning to us, a registered

Apple Software Developer.

Unfortunately since Apple no longer fully supports Rave3D in OS-X and they support it very poorly in Classic mode none of the CM games *officially* supported at all in OS-X. Right now the best solution is to create a separate boot partition on your Mac with OS 9.2 installed.

With the new Macs coming out it may no longer be possibe to play CM at all if they do not permit dual booting or if Apple does not upgrade their level of Rave3D support, which isn't likely.

With our next major engine rebuild (code named CMX2) we will natively support OS-X via OpenGl."

As for trying to "shoot the messanger", "dishing out swarmy spin" or "blaming someone else", you're implying that we have done that at one point or another, and I have to disagree with that. Our response about OS X compatibility has always been the same, and my post above nicely summarizes what we have always said.

Nobody has more interest than us in making our games Mac compatible, and nobody has been hurt more than us - financially - because of what happened. It's ironic that CM which has been originally designed on a Mac isn't fully compatible anymore, but we cannot do anything about it.

Recoding the current CM series would take way too much time, time that is much better used for making the new engine. But we have not abandoned the Mac platform and never will. One of the upcoming games, Modern Naval Battles, will be fully Mac compatible, as will be the new engine CMX2, when it's done.

As for giving you a date - we've stated already previously when we expect the new engine to be ready, and that hasn't changed: 2005.

Martin

[Redwolf]

Besides, smart businesses which are in the programming businesses don't publish release times before the programming is done. Doing so would be the bad business plan.

[Battlefront]

What Moon said is correct. A few additions though:

As is well known, modern Macs cannot boot into Mac OS 9.

Last I heard, this is not true. Apple did this for last winter's new machines, realized it was a mistake, and changed the ROMs back to being able to boot in OS9.

It would seem that I have done my dough cold!

You bought the game/s with the full knowledge that CM is not compatiable with OSX. That was made very clear on the ordering page. Never, and I mean never, have we every said it would be any different. Therefore, you have nothing to complain about. If you upgraded your Mac and can no longer play CM, that isn't our problem. Just like it isn't the problem of hundreds of other software makers whose software stopped working with various system upgrades.

I had to use OS 8.6 until last year because a key piece of software used to develop CM wouldn't run on anything higher. Did I complain? No, because there is nothing to complain about. That is just the way it goes. Same reason why I don't complain about games I own which stopped working when System 6 or System 7 broke them.

Having said all that, we would really like to have an OS X version for CM. The lack of one is hurting our sales. The problem is that devoting resources to making one comes at the expense of the new CMx2 engine. And so far the equation of pros/cons favors sticking with CMx2 development. If we spent our time working backwards or we'd be out of business.

Steve

[Dawg Bonz]

Hey "Out of patience" Tony. I can understand your frustration.

Have you considered buying / building a Gamming PC?

CMBO, BB, & AK are all great games. I have purchased all three and must say these are pretty much the only Mac games I play now. Macs can be great computers. I have owned Macs since those funny little Mac Plus machines around 1984 or so.

I am not poking salt in your OSX wound with this question about purchasing a different computer system. I am on a very ‘vintage’ Mac (OS9.1) as I write. With the low cost of PC parts and a little technical skill one can build a very CM capable Gamming PC for less than a new / old CM capable Mac. With the greater depth of PC games available than Mac games, this may be a wise ‘entertainment’ option. Upgrading a custom PC does not appear to be that difficult either.

Building a Gamming PC is something to consider Tony. I am considering this ‘move to the Dark Side’ a/k/a building a low cost PC as hobby / learning project for myself.

Moon & Steve’s replies are polite & accurate from what I know. I can only imagine how frustrated they must be as registered Apple Software Developers. The APPLE business decision frustrated plenty of Mac gammers but took money out of BFC’s pocket. That business loss is more than frustrating, IMO.

Happy Gamming,

Dawg

Moon: "The new engine is more than just a port of the current CM games to OS X, it will be the foundation of a totally new game (or series of games) that won't have much to do with the current CM series." ….. Due out in 2005.

Any more CMX2 hints? I should have my PC built by 2005 so I will be ready.

[MouseBert]

Since we are now well into 2005 now and impatiently waiting for the Mac OS X version, are you willing to give an ETA in which quarter it is likely to be released? How are you set for beta testers? I kind of like the idea of using your model of locked demos for distribution of betas; that way distribution would be inexpensive and convient. Do you have an official form for applying for beta testing? (Also, I liked the idea of duel use disk (Windows/Mac OS). I know space is a premium, but I personally would pay a few bucks more for it to be on DVD ROM.)

Regards,

MouseBert

[rune]

As been said in the past, Q4 of 2006. Beta testing is by invite only, as is the scenario designers.

Rune

[MouseBert]

Originally posted by rune:

As been said in the past, Q4 of 2006. Beta testing is by invite only, as is the scenario designers.

Rune

Sorry, I missed that in my search. I was under the wrong impression that it was this year. Thanks for the info.

[Dook]

Rune,

Did you mean Q4 of 2005 (i.e. end of this year)?

[rune]

Eeks, you are of course correct, the official date is Q6 of 2005. Aplogies for the typo.

Rune

[Dawg Bonz]

Rune … the official date is Q6 of 2005.

Hmm? Had me a speck confused … easy to do on Monday. To clarify I did da google for Q6 of 2005.

BILLS BY FILE CODE: Taxes - Recordation and Transfer (Q6) - 2005 ...Regular Session file code information... Taxes - Recordation and Transfer (Q6) Total Number of Bills: 7 ...

So I think this is Rune ‘code talking’ for Q2 2006…. Q4 + Q2 = Q6?

Still use a Mac to play CM. I got a D- in Math you know.

Dawg … out to bicycle some air into my loitering computational potential

[Dook]

Originally posted by rune:

.... Q6 of 2005. Aplogies for the typo.

Rune

Don't you just hate Mondays?

[Dawg Bonz]

Dook … Don't you just hate Mondays?

Really kick arss Tuesdays are tough too…. But any day is fine … with enough remedy (sound of cork popping on another fine Wine Cape vintage). It is 5 PM somewhere? Moreover, my new St Edouards ROWV Scenario tattoo is intensely robust and smarts a bit. Graduated Magnum Cum Laudy - Laudy in Sommelier University you know.

Dawg… yet hooked on the Mac mechanism. Expecting the Q9 –2006 , CMx2 – OSX version(s) to retain my resistance to the ‘dark side.’

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by Dawg Bonz:

Have you considered buying / building a Gamming PC?

Been a Mac user since '85 and for CM I bought a cheap PC. I look at it as a Playstation. If I want to play (and be frustrated) I use the PC.... if I want to get something done, I use a Mac

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by rune:

Q6 of 2005. Aplogies for the typo.

Don't mind Rune... he uses a PC

[Dawg Bonz]

Berlichtingen, I understand. Could not make that PC ‘advance.’ I kept getting the shakes thinking about it.

Got a very sweet (inexpensive) deal on slightly used G4 Quick Silver 2001 with the 17" Apple LCD thrown in the deal. Ironically the system was literally from… "A little old lady who needed something faster for her email so she bought a G5!" CM-BO-BB-AK all work fine on the old OS 9.2.2 and I can run OS 10.3.8 w/o a hitch. Now a single processor 700 MHz machine is going to be on the slow side for CMx2 in Q19 of 2006 but… maybe that little old lady will need a faster email G6 by then?

Dawg … still doing machinations after all these years.

[rune]

It was Berli, he gave me an extra Monday this week. *Sigh* Q4 of 2005. Hmm I actually may have typed that right this time. Q4 of 2005. See, I knew I could....

Rune

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by rune:

It was Berli, he gave me an extra Monday this week. *Sigh* Q4 of 2005. Hmm I actually may have typed that right this time. Q4 of 2005. See, I knew I could....

Rune

Oh... I thought that was just Pentium math

[rune]

A possibility.

Rune

[TufenHuden]

There is a XP emulator to put on the Mac OS

you can try that-it's about $150.00-$200.00

you can type in google search http://www.thefreecountry.com/emulators/pc.shtml

Google search links http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-19,RNWE:en&q=XP+emulator+for+mac+PC -give it try

or I guess wait-that's all I know to try to remedy

it.

http://www.thefreecountry.com/emulators/pc.shtml

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-19,RNWE:en&q=XP+emulator+for+mac+OS+X+PC

[ April 20, 2005, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: TufenHuden ]

[Berlichtingen]

Emulator's don't work. The video is still run through the Mac OS

[Redwolf]

I am not aware of emulators that emulate 3D hardware acceleration, other than the Windows emulator "Wine" on Unix/x86.

Without 3D hardware acceleration you are litmited to CMBO 640x480. Which you can have on MacOS X anyway.

[Toad]

Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" is out, iMac and eMac models got tech boosts today and still Battlefront doesn't want to sell me CM:BB or CM:AK. I can only upgrade my OS9-bootable Mac so far before I move on to brand new hardware and put my CM:BO CD for sale on eBay.

Seeing a company like BF.com miss the business opportunity in front of them is sad. I had such good hopes for them years ago. Here they have a great product and many Mac fans who would gladly pay for the same game all over again just to own an up-to-date OS X version. But, alas, BF.com wants to spend thousands of hours making a brand new graphics engine for a brand new game that may suck or not-suck. If it does ever materialize, Mac users will remember the excuses and finger-pointing at Apple for why CM:BO would never be OS X compatible and they'll think to themselves,

"If Battlefront abandoned me when the Mac world went to OS X, won't they abandon me just as readily again?" Mac sales will suffer and BF.com will conclude that there's no market in Mac games anymore. When sadly, very sadly, there's a Mac market waiting for them this very day. Not waiting for thousands of hours in the future for some totally re-written game. But right now, waiting for the CM series to catch up from being years behind.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Toad:

Quack.

[tar]

I think you are being a bit unfair in your complaint Toad, especially since you seem to be complaining both about

(1) Lack of support for OS X.

(2) BFC spending resources to write a new graphics engine that WILL support OS X.

Far from abandoning the Mac platform, it seems BFC is trying as hard as they can (economic realities permitting) to get a new game out that works on both windows and OS X.

Although I also lament the inability to run CMx1 under OS X, I understand the problems. The only thing I found a bit odd was that I've never seen any description of precisely which of the unsupported RAVE calls (in Classic) the CM series relies on.