demoss Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Okay, I've got my men around a bunker (behind & to the side), they've got plenty of grenades and molotovs, I just can't convince them to USE the darn things! What do I have to do? I first thought somebody was too close for molotovs, so I backed them off to about 30m. Nothing. So I moved a bit closer. Nothing. I then gave a couple of squads a Follow Vehicle command. They charged in.... AND DID NOTHING!!!!! This is getting on my nerves. Are my Veteran and Regular Finns just a bunch of pansies? Or am I doing something wrong? If so, WHAT? [ November 04, 2002, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: demoss ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Well that is odd, I usually just leave 'em next to the thing and they tend to target and destroy it on their own. Yeah, I know that wasn't helpful. [ November 02, 2002, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Cameroon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 2, 2002 Author Share Posted November 2, 2002 Well that is odd, I usually just leave 'em next to the thing and they tend to target and destroy it on their own. My troops are targeting it, they just aren't firing or tossing anything. Okay, I see what's going on now. If a squad has grenades AND molotovs, they seem to get confused and use neither. If a squad has only grenades, they'll use them (at a rate of about 1 a minute). Looks like a bug to me. [ November 02, 2002, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: demoss ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I noticed the same thing, I had a Rifle team w/ 2 grenade bundles and 4 reg.grenades behind an MG bunker. They used the 1st bundle early in turn 15, then did nothing for 5+ turns, not even regular grenades. I eventually brought up a Flamethrower to properly do the job. Maybe this *is* a bug? My men were never suppressed the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebus_Badger Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 For what it's worth, I had the same behaviour in Hill312: no suppression, plenty of ammo, targeted to bunker... nothing. Luckily the bunker just gave up after a few turns when the trenches were all taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I have also seen similar behavior in the same scenario. Several unsuppressed squads next to last MG bunker throwing grenades at _very_ slow rate. The bunker survived till end of game (2 minutes, IIRC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Saunders Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Ya know this very well could be a bug. And not just against bunkers. Someone ought to set up a test scenario and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I also experienced this with 2 vet squads alone and unsuppressed with lots of grens against the rear and sides of a wooded MG bunker. After 5 minutes of inactivity I brought up a company CO and he got the job done. Note the 2 full squads were always under command of the CO, I just brought brought the CO close enough to start using his own grenades and he immediately went to work. The squads were all veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 I've confirmed all this with a simple test. Four Sissi squads set up 15 m behind four Russian bunkers. Of the Sissi squads, one has only grenades, one also has molotovs, one has demos, and one has both. The two with demos use them and quickly destroy their pillboxes. So far, so good. The one with no molotovs uses grenades, and though it takes a few turns, they too kill their target. The one with molotovs but no demos sits on his butt. Does NOT A BLOODY THING. I'm now completely convinced this is a bug. I can email the test scenario should somebody at Battlefront want a look. It doesn't require any real interaction - probably works quickest as Axis vs. AI (no need to give orders for either side). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Is it possible that the "slowly throwing grenades" represents a close assault and not actual grenade throwing? I haven't seen it yet, but I have read that units with demolition charges have an extra command you can use to destroy fortifications. I don't think plain infantry are the best for destroying pillboxes and bunkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 This is getting on my nerves. Are my Veteran and Regular Finns just a bunch of pansies? Or am I doing something wrong? If so, WHAT? Tanks have the same problem. I have a Soviet Valentine (57mm equiped) a BA-64, and a whole rifle Platoon directly behind a German 88mm AT Pillbox...and I'll be damned if any of them would fire at it. Each time I would target the Bunker, the Valentine (Which was at this time 20m away and directly behind the bunker) would only fire a single round and then de-target the bunker and just sit there. Each turn I would re-target and get the same "Fire one shot and then give up" action. Then on the 4th turn the Valeintine just ups and starts to pound the bunker into submission by putting 1/2 a dozen rounds through the back door weak point and finally knocking it out. On a side note: when the German crew finally fled the bunker they walked right into a Tank, BA-64, and an entire infantry Platoon. "BLAM-O!" Man was it loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagus Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Hi, have been having the same problem in the Näätäoja operation. I have troops behind the wooden MG bunkers but nothing happens. Only Sissi squads with demo charges and the flamethrower work. The latter can be very spectacular with the bunker exploding and all troops too close shaken... The other problem is how to get machineguns to fire at the MG bunkers to supress them ?? The MGs only fire few bullets then stop. BTW, the Näätäoja or Naataoja operation is great, scenery is perfect and the play is excellent!!! LilLagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 Hm. In Naataoja, my MGs seem to want nothing more than to spray their entire ammo allotment at the front of a wooden bunker. Also, the rare Finnish squad that DOESN'T have molotovs will do the trick on a bunker, but it takes a few turns usually. That's what my test shows, at any rate, and it seems borne out in practice. Oh, 37mm AT works reasonably well, and Lahtis occasionally. Try those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge77 Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 P A T C H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 *bump* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Just dropping in to note that I've seen similar behaviour in Hill 312 also. What was even more annoying was that after a turn or two of doing nothing I retargetted the squad (or HQ?) onto something more profitable (a Russian squad or sumfink), but the AI thought it knew better. It dropped the manual targetting, re-targetted the bunker, and did ... nuffink. Maybe they just wanted a breather after running up the hill :confused: Regards JonS Edit: becoz eye kant tipe [ November 04, 2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 Any ideas, Battlefront? MadMatt? Bueller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 6, 2002 Author Share Posted November 6, 2002 Does anyone care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marder Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 *bump* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassner.1 Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 I would've thought that they're not throwing grenades & molotovs because those weapons are prety much cr@p against bunkers so why waste them? Saving Pvt Ryan and otehr war movies notwithstanding, the weapons of chice against bunkers are guns (incl those on tanks!), demolition charges and flamethrowers. IMO If you get a bunker kill with anything else ithen count yourself lucky and don't rely on it happening in the next game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted November 7, 2002 Author Share Posted November 7, 2002 Grenades work reliably given time (several turns, in general, it seems). Sure, demos are better, but the Finns have to make do.... The real issue is that grenades work, but a squad that also has molotovs won't use them. I keep hoping Battlefront will say something about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted November 7, 2002 Share Posted November 7, 2002 this is an interesting observation to be sure :confused: !! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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