Madmatt Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Managed to squeeze in a little time to update CMHQ with a pair of new mods from freshman Mod artist Steven Burvenich. Check um out, I like um! Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Is that a PzIVD??? What the... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted April 22, 2002 Author Share Posted April 22, 2002 Yeah, I sorta cheated and stuck these mods into CMBB to take the screenshots. When CMBB is released these mods will no longer work as all the models will be changed (updated with greater amounts of polygons and detail) and the textures will no longer "fit" properly. Madmatt [ April 22, 2002, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Madmatt ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wiking] Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Nice. But then again, it always is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 While they sure look nicely done, I don't see the point for them. Panzergrau is nowhere realistic for CMBO, nor is a PzIV Ausf.D with the technical data of a Pz IV G (or later). Lastly, Panzergrau was a bit darker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted April 22, 2002 Author Share Posted April 22, 2002 I just noticed that this mod doesnt include any side or turret skirt textures so I have made note of that in the Compatiability Issues line for it. Madmatt [ April 22, 2002, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Madmatt ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Hof, you make some good points, but did you really need to get in that last poke about panzergrau? It looks all right to me, especially since the color is very subjective, both to the veiwers perpective and to the effects of weathering and 50 different companies all making the same color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Hey Matt? How 'bout posting the new CMMOS uniforms too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Yeh, Markuss, some people just like the look of panzer grey no matter how ahistorical it is - I'm one of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Actually PL, I think Hof might be right in saying that the panzer grey was quite a bit darker, everything Ive read and the few colour shots of it I have found show a dark blue/grey, that in shadow almost looks black. Id be interested to know of any sources that suggest different though? Great looking mod all the same Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Well, I make no claim to "knowing the answer" as it seems so subjective. However, here are a few shots I have found. I also make no claim to their authenticity or the affect of age on the original photo, since I neither took them nor know who did. That said, I would tentatively agree that the gray was dark, nearly black (with a hint of blue)WHEN NEW, but it is open to interpretation. That said, let's take a look at the only panzergrau color photos I've ever found... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Another thing to consider, Kwazy, although I am sure you know it, and it has no bearing on the ACTUAL color, is that when making a model smaller than normal size, colors must be lightened to make up for the affect of it being smaller. I learned this making plastic models, but cannot explain why scientifically. I assume it is the same for 3d models which will be MUCH smaller than real life. Maybe, I don't know how that would translate... Kwazy, you're not going to make our tanks look like a bunch of black beetles scurrying about the battlefield are you?? :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 OH MY Muther-F------ GOD THOSE ARE SICK AND I WANT MORE!!!!!. Tanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Soldier, Panzer Leader: I belive I can answer your color/scale/lightness question. The smaller the object, the less light it can reflect, causing darker tones- causing the artist to increase the light values of the model. This, however, has no effect on 3D models, as on can tell an object how much light to reflect (also, 3D models have no "scale"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Thanks LGMB, that makes perfect sense. OK, maybe they are a little darker than the above mod. Here is a little more info I found: Now, the first picture is what I take to be official RAL German wartime paint color designations, taken from a web-site known as "Panzer Colors" (off the AFV News site). That looks very blue -- more than I first supposed. The second shot is a Pz III after a nice bath. Hard to distinguish colors though with all the shade and glare. One thing is certain, each of the tanks pictured vary widely in their color. The reasons why are numerous, but I would guess the top three to be: photo deterioration and improper original colorization (these are the days before Technicolor don'tcha know ); Fading due to rigourous usage and blistering sun. The Ukraine seems to be a pretty sunny place after all; and finally, dust, dirt, grime, etc. As an interesting aside, I have read memoires (one recent through Michael Dorosh springs to mind) where Allied veterans reminisce that the German tanks they encountered looked "gray" and this is after Normandy! I wish I had some hard facts on the subject, and the willingness to do the research, but I would hypothesize that older paints do not maintain their 'crispness' like modern paints, and coupled with the extensive weathering taking place in constant action, they quickly gain a rather drab appearance. Even for hard-core modellers, there is no "supreme ruling" on which,. if any, color is best or most accurate. Look at some of the best modellers works and you will find at least as many shades of gray as the above pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Interesting, as I'm currently building a panzergrey IV H early version for a potential eastern front diorama. I was concerned with my initial coloring being too dark, as it really is a blue-black. The thing is, with weathering and wear, I think the color did lighten considerably to appear more a "grey". Many photos that I've seen seem to bear this out.... Anyway, them mods look swell to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 PL, I was actually after book references describing the colour, as pictures can be hard to judge, as you say. For instance, Zaloga in The Eastern Front - Armour Camoflage and Markings describes Panzer Grey as a very dark grey blue. I would suggest that the colour you have in your colour chart above would be the closest match to this. A similar colour is described in German Tanks of WW2 in Colour. As for the photos, Ill be honest and say that I suspect the first one is a post war repaint, as it looks far too light. The others are closer to the colour I was suggesting though. Below is a site that has a bunch of great colour shots that I honestly feel are probably close to the colour of the day. Not that I particually like the darker colour, but I think it is probably more realistic if that is what people are after http://angriff.narod.ru/fotopage/fotocol.tit.htm These may take a while to load guys, but are well worth the trouble. This site which, although not in English, seems to be doung a great job of collect WW2 colour images. Dan [ April 22, 2002, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Originally posted by M Hofbauer: While they sure look nicely done, I don't see the point for them. Panzergrau is nowhere realistic for CMBO, nor is a PzIV Ausf.D with the technical data of a Pz IV G (or later). who cares, it looks cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 hey madmatt! there is minor problem with the mod: it doesn't replace 4600.bmp: so my stug iv had a side with a few parts that were the color of my old stug mod. can be fixed by copying 3270.bmp to 4600.bmp and reducing the size by 50% using ms paint or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Soldier, Russ: To quote the great bald one, "I just noticed that this mod doesnt [sic] include any side or turret skirt textures so I have made note of that in the Compatiability Issues line for it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Even for hard-core modellers, there is no "supreme ruling" on which,. if any, color is best or most accurate. Look at some of the best modellers works and you will find at least as many shades of gray as the above pictures."The vehicles' appearance was also changed by a gradual oxidation and thus lightening of the Dunkelgrau color. The freshly manufactured vehicled were generally darker than the well used ones. Finally, as mentioned before, different shades of the dark grey were coming directly from production" - Wehrmacht Heer Camouflage colors 1939-45 Tomas Chory, Aura Design Studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Oh boy, another discussion of panzer grey, this reminds me of some discussions I have had with my modeling friends. In essence, I agree with everyone here (I'm easy). By that I mean I, too, have read that new panzer grey was quite dark. In fact, I remember reading references to the panzers used in the Spanish Civil War as looking practically black. However, as others have noted, the color tended to lighten with age. Further, the accumulation of dust and dirt tended to make the appearance lighter. So, bottomline is that there is most likely a very wide range of shades that could be considered historical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopenfaust2 Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Kwazy Just a question, will AFVeez in CMBB get more than one set of textures e.g. earlier fighting vehicles get the panzergrey while later on they get the sand colour. p.s. I see people spelling "colour" the british way. Wassup with that. I thought this was an "american" board. Its actually the way I spell it Cheers [ April 23, 2002, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Hoopenfaust 101 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Originally posted by Hoopenfaust 101: p.s. I see people spelling "colour" the british way. Wassup with that. I thought this was an "american" board.Indeed, it is intolerable, an outrage! I say send the 96% with these grave deficiencies to the colonies! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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