DesertFox Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I thought some of you might have interest in this topic though not yet converted to CM:AK. Hint! Hint! for Leland Available soon at "Der Kessel" and the "Scenario Depot". - OPERATION PERCH I - - The Morning Battle for Villers-Bocage and Hill 213 - - 13th June 1944, 08:55-10:35 hours - - south-west of CAEN Type: German Assault (Historical) Date: June 13th, 1944 Location: Villers-Bocage, south-west of CAEN, Normandy Turns: 95 Weather: Overcast Number of Battles: n.a. Map Size: HUGE ! [3280 x 1520 metres] Forces: British/German Best played as: AXIS vs AI PBEM: NOT TESTED! Version number: 0.90b Author: "The DesertFox" Feedback: thedesertfox@gmx.net Design decisions and a word of warning: Lenght of the scenarios and introduction of reserves represent "real-time" as far as this is possible within the game´s limitations. All historical persons have been marked with "name****" as far as it was possible to establish from the sources cited. As soon as Mapping Mission© will support CM:AK this series will also be released for the last incarnation of the CM-engine. These scens have not been tested for balance but are meant to be a representation of the historical events as far as research allows. Nevertheless I hope you enjoy this recreation within the limitations of the game-engine. Historical background: This is Part I of a series of scenarios I created some time ago to depict the events of "Operation PERCH" (codenamed Operation Wild Oats). The sequence of the complete series is: Operation Perch I - The Morning battle - Villers-Bocage - Hill 213 - 08:55-10:35, 13th June 1944 Operation Perch II - The Afternoon Battle - Villers-Bocage - 13:00-15:00, 13th June 1944 Operation Perch III - 2nd Panzer Division arrives - Tracy-Bocage - 13th June 1944 Operation Perch IV - The Battle of the Brigade Box - Amaye-sur-Seuilles - 14th June 1944 Operation Perch V - The Withdrawal from the Brigade Box - Amaye-sur-Seuilles - 14th June 1944 "Operation PERCH" was planned by the british 21st Army Group and the British Second Army. A direct assault on Caen was ruled out as being too costly and difficult and thus "Operation PERCH" was born to inject some movement into the frontline by trying to outflank the stubborn german resistance around CAEN to the west. Phase One began when the 22nd Armoured Brigade (Brig. Hinde), with 4th County of London Yeomanry "The Sharpshooters" (4thCLY-Lt.-Col.Cranley) supported by "A" Company 1st Rifle Brigade (1RB-Maj.Wright) in the lead, were ordered to capture the important road junction of Villers-Bocage and the high ground beyond (Point 213) on the morning of June 13th. Lt.-Col.Cranley, had requested time to carry out a proper reconnaissance of the area as German armoured cars had been spotted observing the advance south from Tilly-sur-Seulles. Orders were, however, to push on regardless. The Brigade orders were as follows [9]: - 4thCLY capture and secure Point 213 northeast of Villers-Bocage - 1/7th Queens capture and secure the exits from Villers-Bocage, except those west of the church - 1stRB (without 2 Companies) capture and secure the remaining three exits from town - 5thRTR capture and hold the high terrain around Maisoncelles-Pelvy (3 km southwest of Villers-Bocage - 260th Anti-Tank Battery will close gap between 4thCLY and 5thRTR Leaving the regimental HQ tanks at the top of the main street in Villers-Bocage, ‘A’ Squadron 4thCLY, was ordered forward to secure Point 213 about two km north-east up N175. On reaching Point 213, ‘A’ Squadron 4CLY (Maj. Scott) halted and Cranley ordered an "O-group" on top of Point 213. Unknown to the British, the 2nd Company of heavy SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101 had just arrived in Normandy in the night 12th/13th June after a long road march from Paris which left only a few tanks servicable. The Company took up position south of the highway N175 along a sunken lane, the ancient route de Caen near Montbrocq, La Ciderie and Les Hauts Vents. Parked in sunken lanes or orchards at the slopes of Hill 213, hidden from aerial view and view from RN 175 the crews were resting and/or completing maintenance in the morning of June 13th. Around 08:30 hours (british time - 07:30 for the germans), the British started to enter Villers-Bocage without resistance and received a warm welcome from the remaining inhabitants. After reaching Villers-Bocage, it took almost another half-hour for `A´Squadron to reach Point 213. Just as they began to arrive at the high ground, Lt. Bill Garnett came across a german staff car coming the other way [2]. This scenario begins at the moment when the Tiger of Michael Wittmann, the CO of 2nd Co. heavy-SS-PzAbt-101, after being alarmed by a guard, clears the slope of Hill 213 and spots the first British tank. Sources: The most recent, relevant and reliable sources about what happened back then are [1] and [2], however, as always, it doesn´t hurt to read a little bit more to piece together information and e.g. to seperate reliable [1,2,3,4] from not so reliable sources [14,15]. [1] Patrick Agte "Michael Wittmann und die Tiger der Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler", Deutsche Verlagsgesellschaft Rosenheim, ISBN: 3-920722-18-3, 2.Auflage 1995 [2] Daniel Taylor "Villers-Bocage through the lens", After the Battle Books, ISBN: 187006707X, 2nd Edition September 1999 [3] Georges Bernage "Les Panzers dans la bataille de Normandie" Edition Heimdal [4] Wolfgang Schneider "Tigers in Combat II" Fedorowicz Publishing [5] Patrick Delaforce "Churchill´s Desert Rats" Chancellor Press [6] Helmut Ritgen "Westfront 1944" Motorbuch Verlag [7] WO 171/856. War Diary 4th County of London Yeomanry, Public Record Office, Kew [8] Michael Reynolds "Steel Inferno" Sarpedon Publishing [9] Hubert Mayer "War diary of 12th SS Panzerdivision" Fedorowicz Publishing [10] Eric Lefevre "Panzers in Normandy - Then and Now" After the Battle Books [11] Jean Restain "Tiger I on the western front" Histoire & Collection [12] Will Fey "Panzerkampf im Bild" VBG-Verlagsgesellschaft Berg mbH [13] 1/25000 map 1513-O Series Bleue "Aunay-sur-Odon, Villers-Bocage" IGN [14] Gary Simpson "Tiger Ace" Schiffer Military History [15] Franz Kurowski "Panzer Aces" Ballantine Books 0 Quote
Kingfish Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 What are you going to use in place of Cromwells? 0 Quote
DesertFox Posted June 14, 2004 Author Posted June 14, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: What are you going to use in place of Cromwells? Kingfish, I did some experiments with Vallentines but finally came to the conclusion that Sherman Is are the best compromise you can get. Certainly it is by far no Cromwell but maybe the BTS guys finally show some mercy and give us the necessary stuff in a patch to make CM:AK a real update successor for CM:BO. Well one can dream.... cheers 0 Quote
Runyan99 Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 Originally posted by DesertFox: Lenght of the scenarios and introduction of reserves represent "real-time" as far as this is possible within the game´s limitations. That's not realistic. Your scenario is 95 turns long, but in real life, there wasn't something happening at all times for an hour and a half. Real WW2 battles didn't last an hour and a half. What actually happened is that people would fight for 20-30 minutes, and then there would be a pause. EVERYONE would stop fighting and reorganize. Then there would be another fight for 20-30 minutes. If an account says that a battle lasted an hour and a half, it really means there was an hour long approach march, and then 20-30 minutes of shooting. You see, CM just cuts out that first hour, which is really just a boring bit, and simulates the last 20-30 minutes after all maneuver has taken place. So, the combat simulation within CM is perfectly legitimate. I know this because it is what I have been told as much here on the forum time and time again, during several discussion topics. It is unrealistic to create a scenario where both sides can actually move and fight for an hour and a half. I mean, what if someone runs out of ammo? What then? Your scenario becomes bunk. There was never a period during WW2 where infantry was unable to draw a fresh supply of ammuntion for an hour or more. They didn't have to, because a combat mission only lasted 30 minutes or so. I hope you will see the light, and immediately revise your scenario to 25 turns. I'm sure that will lead to a more realistic result. Thanks! [ June 14, 2004, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ] 0 Quote
DesertFox Posted June 14, 2004 Author Posted June 14, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: I hope you will see the light, and immediately revise your scenario to 25 turns. I'm sure that will lead to a more realistic result. LOL! Good joke, ain´t gonna happen. However thanks for pointing out that line of thought to me. 0 Quote
Londoner Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 Why not just break it up into an operation? 0 Quote
Londoner Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 There was never a period during WW2 where infantry was unable to draw a fresh supply of ammuntion for an hour or more Ambiguous statement imo mate. 0 Quote
Londoner Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I think the term "operation" is misleading for CM purposes. IMO A good op in CM terms is a historical action that took place over no more than a day or two. So each battle represents one of these 30 minute "pushes" over 12-36 hours. [ June 14, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Londoner ] 0 Quote
MikeyD Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I'm currently readingthe book "Tank Tracks" on the 9th Battalion RTR, which covers fighting over much the same area (south-west of Caen) thirteen days later with Churchills doing close infantry support. Great book and crying out for scenario development. 0 Quote
Runyan99 Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 Originally posted by Londoner: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> There was never a period during WW2 where infantry was unable to draw a fresh supply of ammuntion for an hour or more Ambiguous statement imo mate. </font> 0 Quote
DesertFox Posted June 14, 2004 Author Posted June 14, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Londoner: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> There was never a period during WW2 where infantry was unable to draw a fresh supply of ammuntion for an hour or more Ambiguous statement imo mate. </font> 0 Quote
Kingfish Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 I fired it up this morning, only to watch helplessly on turn 2 while Wittman first tracked a Cromwell less than 50 meters away, then turn 90 degrees to engage a Company HQ that was down to 2 men. :mad: I have to admit the resulting fireball was beautiful, but 2 months premature. If ever there was a scenario that could profit from an armor only command, this one is it. 0 Quote
Londoner Posted June 14, 2004 Posted June 14, 2004 IMO getting ammunition to the guys in the forward slit trenchs could not uncommonly be a very risky business. There must've been many occasions when it didn't get through for longer than 60 minutes. Sure it's only one guys experiences and it's meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but Peter White's "With the Jocks" springs to mind. As a platoon commander in NW europe from IIRC october '44, he describes a few actions where his platoon were totally and utterly pinned in their slits due to MG and mortar fire for at least a couple of hours. He is very clear about this, nobody dared move out of cover, the injured went unattended and nobody from coy HQ dared come forward to see them. The manner in which he describes such events suggested they were not exceptional, others went through the same thing. Another highly regarded (British) "infantryman's story" is Alex Bowley's, ahhh christ what's it called, I can't find it anywhere! Anyway, IIRC he describes very similar circumstances. It's a great read, I'll find the title shortly.... DesertFox, I've never designed an op so I'll bow to your superior knowledge. If you say it won't work for this sort of battle fair enough but IMO Runyan makes a sound point even if he is "taking the piss". [ June 14, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Londoner ] 0 Quote
DesertFox Posted June 14, 2004 Author Posted June 14, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: If ever there was a scenario that could profit from an armor only command, this one is it. exactly that is why it plays better in CM:AK and also in CM:BB. More control for the player is very helpfull and was one reason I initially wanted to wait until I can convert it to CM:AK before releasing it. As a hint: Prioritize your targets and start with killing the biggest threats first, this way you largely increase your chance to survive and stay within the historical sequence of events. [ June 14, 2004, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: DesertFox ] 0 Quote
DesertFox Posted June 14, 2004 Author Posted June 14, 2004 Londoner, DesertFox, I've never designed an op so I'll bow to your superior knowledge. If you say it won't work for this sort of battle fair enough but IMO Runyan makes a sound point even if he is "taking the piss". no need to bow. I´m certainly no better nor worse than others, but what you have to understand is that there are different folks out there who have different objectives in mind when they create a scen. There are the guys who aim to solely create balanced stuff for PBEM, there are folks who aim to create balanced stuff with a certain degree of historical accuracy and there are these sad cases like me who only (mis)use the CM-engine to try to simulate events they read about as detailed as possible from the sources at hand. I usually start doing this with the creation of a deduced timeline, then create the map as detailed as possible and then combine both until I am able to follow the reported events as close as possible within the cm-engine. This way I can achieve my "personal objective" to learn to understand how and why commanders made their decisions the way they did and that is exactly the reason I included a disclaimer and a word of warning in the briefing, because this scen is neither aimed to be balanced nor time-compressed, because the events I try to simulate weren´t either. So let´s say I use the cm-engine as some kind of time-machine and history simulator and not that much as a gaming engine. That certainly is the reason why my scens turn out as they are. Some folks like them some folks hate them 0 Quote
John D Salt Posted June 15, 2004 Posted June 15, 2004 Originally posted by Londoner: [QB Another highly regarded (British) "infantryman's story" is Alex Bowley's, ahhh christ what's it called, I can't find it anywhere! [/QB]"The Recollections of Rifleman Bowlby", perhaps? All the best, John. 0 Quote
Londoner Posted June 15, 2004 Posted June 15, 2004 Ahhhhh spot on sir, many thanks! I knew the spelling was out, no wonder I couldn't find it on amazon either! 0 Quote
Dinsdale Posted June 15, 2004 Posted June 15, 2004 There was never a period during WW2 where infantry was unable to draw a fresh supply of ammuntion for an hour or more I don't think Never is a good word. "Rarely" might be a better word. Or possibly "Not often" Didn't take much time to dig this up Croatian Volunteers in the German Wehrmacht in WWII by Allen Milcic On December 19th 1942, the Brigade was holding Hills 210 and 168 near Hracin. Here they were surrounded by a massive Soviet attack, but continued fighting till December 21st 1942, when they ran out of ammunition and were over-run. There were no survivors and the unit was totally destroyed. 2 days without resupply before being wiped out. Also at Dieppe. We went back to the seawall, but there was nowhere to hide," said the 77-year-old who was 22 in 1942. He said he took a piece of shrapnel in the leg, but didn’t realize it at the time. The shrapnel was found during a medical examination in 1949 and was finally removed at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto in 1960. "The battle was over in a few hours. We had no more ammunition. Someone waved a white flag and a well-dressed German officer appeared. He said: ‘Now boys, drop your weapons and equipment. For you the war is over.’" ...The Essex Scottish assaulted the open eastern section on a beach swept with machine-gun fire. All attempts to breach the seawall were driven back. By mid-morning, with ammunition running low, the survivors struggled back to the water’s edge.That's 2 seperate fronts, 2 sepearte armies. Both ran out of ammunition after many hours of fighting. No resupply. [ June 15, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ] 0 Quote
Mad Russian Posted June 15, 2004 Posted June 15, 2004 Guys Runyan99 was trying to make a point. That infantry units did run out of ammo. Not the other way around. He was using that as a way to get even for having his view of how combat in WWII was fought. I don't think that there should be a problem with portraying either style of mode of combat. There were plenty of times that there were long approaches and set piece battles and there are plenty of opportunity to portray only the last 25 minutes of the fight. As Desertfox pointed out. Depends on what you set out to do. What Cory set out to do with his statement was to even up a few scores I believe...rightfully so IMHO. Panther Commander 0 Quote
Runyan99 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Just playing Devil's Advocate. I think it is pretty obvious that there were countless examples of units that were engaged for hours, all day, all afternoon, or even for a few days without being resupplied. In 'normal' combat operations, situations where ammunition is brought up only once a day (e.g. at night) seem common also. A combat situation that played out over 95 minutes was common indeed. But CM players generally don't like to tackle them. [ June 15, 2004, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ] 0 Quote
JonS Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Some do though, so hopefully DesertFox will ignore the 25-turn edict in your first post DF, I have a similar kind of scenario from Tunisia you might be interested in. Drop me a line (profile -> addy) if you are. Regards JonS 0 Quote
junk2drive Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 for me it is the strategy of the game. i like ops because you can think in advance. not just shotem up for 20 turns and go back to the menu. (just an exaggerated example, dont yell at me) i get near the end of an op battle and have to make decisions that will affect the next battle. as in, use the ammo i've got now because i will soon get resupplied? or fall back and regroup and see what comes as reinforcements. if a series of battles, not ops, could be tied together with a text, on the same map, i think it could be interesting and fun. 0 Quote
Mad Russian Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Originally posted by Runyan99: A combat situation that played out over 95 minutes was common indeed. But CM players generally don't like to tackle them. I have done a couple of operations and a few larger scenarios. For the most part I don't like operations because they don't stay historical after the very first turn...to many things you can't control as the designer...reinforcements for the most part. The only other problem that I have doing them is the playtesting and play balance. There are fewer playtesters that will do larger battles/ops because of the time investment and they are harder to get the balance "right" and harder to work out the problems. Combine all of that and I certainly will be the first one in line saying what a good job you guys do in making them. I can't do it very well and rarely do I try. For me the shorter ones are not only packed with action but are easier for me to get the end result I am looking for in playability. Some of the posts I've seen put up about the 25 turn scenarios seem a bit strange. A battle lasting 95 minutes, of course has combat going on for most of, if not all of that 95 minutes. It is just that every unit there may not be in a mad 95 minutes of combat. Doesn't mean that it wasn't an ongoing battle for 95 minutes. Some strange ideas bandied about at times. :confused: Panther Commander 0 Quote
Znarf Posted September 18, 2005 Posted September 18, 2005 I played this scenario this weekend as the Axis and had a ball. I highly recommened giving it a try. Great job, DesertFox. 0 Quote
michael_wittman44 Posted September 19, 2005 Posted September 19, 2005 Great idea trying to recreate the series of battles around Villers Bocage! All the best with it. 0 Quote
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