Doctor Sinister Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I didn't know whether to post this in the General Forum or here, so I did both. I suppose, strictly speaking, it's off-topic, but it's also relevant here, in a way. Sorry for the duplication... Pictures of the last remaining operational Tiger Mk I in the world - yes, it actually runs. 1) View down the barrel - had to really reach up high with the camera to get this shot: 2) Yours truly with the beast: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
British Tommy Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Was the photo's taken at the Bovington tank museum in the UK? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centaur Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Heh is that the bovington Tiger They have a great website on its rebuild 2 hours to go through. If i can dig the link up ill post it. should be easy to find on a search engine though. Ps they have got a king tiger and a jaeger tiger if memory serves which it usually dosent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 http://www.tiger-tank.com/ Running? I believe it when I breathe the exhaust fumes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Sinister Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 First, sorry again for starting the same conversation on two separate forums - oh the shame... Yes, it's the Bovington Tiger. I went to see it today with a friend of mine. Got lots of nice pictures but no room to put them up anywhere (my site is nearly full of other stuff). They also have a Panther and King Tiger there. The Panther was somewhat cramped and surrounded by lots of other stuff - so I couldn't really get a good long-range look at it unfortunately. The King Tiger is one of those with the non-standard turret. Again, it's difficult to get the same sense of awe from the King Tiger as with the Tiger I because currently it's just sat in a row with other tanks and AFVs. The Tiger I is in its own display area and you can walk all around it - not so with the King Tiger and I just wasn't as impressed with it as I thought I would be. Bloody big gun though!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30ot6 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Maybe it's just me, but tanks always seem so meek and unimpressive in museums. They don't seem like the same hulking, menacing beasts you see in real combat pictures, with soldiers running around and all that. Don't take me wrong, cool pictures, Doc. Just a thought I had, that's all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by 30ot6: Maybe it's just me, but tanks always seem so meek and unimpressive in museums. They don't seem like the same hulking, menacing beasts you see in real combat pictures, with soldiers running around and all that. Don't take me wrong, cool pictures, Doc. Just a thought I had, that's all. Farley Mowat, the Canadian subaltern who became a nature writer after the war, expressed the same thoughts in 1945. He was put in charge of collecting German weapons of war for transport back to Canada for display in the Canadian War Museum. The idea was for the stuff he collected to be functional, and give an idea of how terrifiying the stuff was for Canadian soldiers. He collected dozens of tanks and vehicles, a V rocket (which the Americans and British wanted to keep to themselves due to the nuclear weapons program in the States), all kinds of small arms and uniforms. The Canadian government promptly refused to pay for shipping the collection back to Canada. A few items did make it - I've visited the Panther and Wirblewind at Canadian Forces Base Borden - most was junked. The V-rocket made it into the Expo and is today missing in action IIRC. None of the German armour or weapons brought back by Farley are runners; the two surviving German AFVs are painted in battleship grey and watched by a severely underfunded and understaffed museum in Borden. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Axe_ Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I've visited the Panther and Wirblewind at Canadian Forces Base Borden I live 15 minutes away from the museum and have sent pictures of the Wirblewind to our very own Warphead at jagtiger.de since the site lists Borden as having one of the two remaining in the world today. Give me a heads up if you plan on stopping by again. And was that Grant Dorosh from Stony Plain, Alberta quoted in The Toronto Star and Globe and Mail today a relation? (I think he talked to Paul Martin yesterday on CBC's Cross Canada Checkup with Rex Murphy). [ February 16, 2004, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Axe2121 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 No Grant in my family. Oddly enough, there are Doroshes in Calgary that are no relation to me. There was even one in the Calgary Health Region payroll system when I worked in scheduling, again, no relation to me. THIS IS the guy I really want to know about If I am ever in Borden, again (and God, how I hope not to be, if you know what I mean!!) I'll look you up! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Sinister Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 Originally posted by 30ot6: Maybe it's just me, but tanks always seem so meek and unimpressive in museums. They don't seem like the same hulking, menacing beasts you see in real combat pictures, with soldiers running around and all that. Personally I didn't find that to be the case. I can see where you are coming from, but it didn't take much for me to imagine the terror some of these things must have invoked in the enemy as they came rolling towards them. It's the enormous mass of these things that gets me. They are just so massive and heavy - huge great slabs of metal welded and riveted together. The tracks on the King Tiger must be two feet wide, each. imagine that running over your foot. I think it goes without saying that I'd rather meet a tank in a museum any day than have to go and fight one! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i imagine it's the stuffed Lion effect. they look a bit bedraggled & motheaten when stuffed. but if you saw a picture of one on the plains & saw how everything looked at it, it would seem a lot more impressive. i've heard that the Tiger in Saving Private Ryan is a T34 in a shell. is the shell the right size etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Other Means: i've heard that the Tiger in Saving Private Ryan is a T34 in a shell. is the shell the right size etc? It is and currently resides in the land warfare hall at Duxford. For size, it seems slightly too wide, but it's difficult to tell without having a real Tiger on hand to compare it with. The tracks give it away as a T34, but you only really look at them becasue the front looks subltey wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim crowley Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 The Tiger is indeed up and "running". It was recently driven into the museum under its own power for the first time, using the original Maybach engine. For those able to get there, Bovington will be hosting a "Tankfest" on May 23, at which, along with many others, the Tiger is expected to do a circuit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Sinister Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 Actually, I was under the impression the original Maybach was beyond repair, and that the one currently inside the Tiger I is actually from a King Tiger? I seem to recall reading this on the Bovington site a few months ago - they had to do some alterations inside the Tiger to get the replacement engine in, because it wouldn't quite fit. I'm open to correction however, I might not be fully up to date with the info' on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Doctor Sinister: Actually, I was under the impression the original Maybach was beyond repair, and that the one currently inside the Tiger I is actually from a King Tiger? I seem to recall reading this on the Bovington site a few months ago - they had to do some alterations inside the Tiger to get the replacement engine in, because it wouldn't quite fit. I'm open to correction however, I might not be fully up to date with the info' on this. I'm pretty sure you're correct except that I thought the engine was from the JagdTiger that they have there, not the King Tiger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Having accompanied Doctor Sinister on his trip to make sure he didn't try to drive anything away, I can confirm that the guy at the museum definitely said the engine was from the King Tiger. He was also less than certain that the Tiger would actually be fit to take part in the Tankfest; he said that it was planned to use it but he didn't seem like a man who was convinced that it would make it. It is undoubtedly running but you get the distinct impression that they are expecting something to go 'bang' every time they press the go button. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 IIRC, they broke the original engine by blowing the cylinders, though I was under the impression that the replacement was the same type of engine. Given the agonies they appear to have gone through over repacing the spare track on the front, I would have thought that they would only use an identical model of engine. I'm not sure that all the people who work at the museum are actually that knowledgable. One told me that a Jagdpanzer kannone was in fact a late WWII tank, and the description on the Conqueror is wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Don't they all use the same 12-cylinder Maybach engine, anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: Don't they all use the same 12-cylinder Maybach engine, anyway? No, actually the Tiger.I used two different versions of the same basic motor. The HL230.P45 was the engine used in later Tigers and the Tiger.Ausf.B. For the early model Tiger depicted above, the P45 would be inaccurate, however, I doubt they have much choice. The alternative would be to scratchbuild the right engine. I don't think anyone with the interest to see 100% accuracy has the funding to do so. Those with the resource, do not have the interest. The difference is about 50 bhp anyway, so maybe I'm just being pedantic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Great photo's, thanks so much for posting em. I assume the Tiger was not fully loaded at the time. How much do you think it would sink down into the suspension with a crew, ammo, interior facilities and fuel/oil/water? Asked the above question to get an idea of how much smaller the area between the wheels and 80mm side superstructure armor would become with a normal combat loading. Terrific photo's, good of you to share. Lorrin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Sinister Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Was it fully loaded? I have no idea what was on board. Probably just a small amount of fuel (since it ran out of petrol when they drove it in) and just enough oil and water for when they want to crank it up again. I doubt that there's any ammunition of any type in there - not even any dummy stuff, it's not like you can see inside it right now or anything like that. Obviously no food or consumables are kept on board, but I don't think they'd add significantly to the weight anyway. Here are two more pictures that show the Tiger from the side - as you can see, there's not THAT much room between the upper body and the top of the tracks as it is. Let's face it, the thing weighs 57 tons already, Personally I don't see the addition of a crew or supplies causing it to lower much more, if at all. The impression I get is that the torsion bar suspension would only really significantly move when the vehicle was moving, but I'm not an expert, so perhaps someone else might want to comment on that. Perhaps you could compare these "unladen" pictures with some pix taken of Tigers during the war and compare the distances between the tracks/wheels and the upper body? If you ask me, the Tiger just cries out to be sat beneath an overhead all-round gantry and for those hatches to be open so people can see inside. I tried to get some pictures showing the top of the engine deck and the hatches and they came out OK, but although I'm 6 foot 6 inches tall, I couldn't-just-quite get a picture showing the top of the turret. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Sinister Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by flamingknives. Given the agonies they appear to have gone through over replacing the spare track on the front, I would have thought that they would only use an identical model of engine. The replacement track on the front is actually a resin replica - unfortunately that's pretty obvious when you see it "in the flesh" so to speak. It just doesn't look quite right. Nice touch though. Re' the engine, yes I agree, and I'm sure they would have preferred to use an idential engine as the original one that broke, however as someone else has stated here, where would you get one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Aviation fuel is generally calculated at about 6lbs per gallon. I would venture a guess and say that since the Tiger carried about 125 gallons of fuel, the weight of fuel would be around 750lbs at full load. I have no clue how much an individual round weighed, so I'm stuck there.... BTW, Rexford, when you get a chance, could you check out my Panzer III mantle thread? I'd appreciate your input. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I followed the restoration process pretty closely. I've actually been in touch with a couple of the guys who did some of the work, and they made for me some great sketches that I am using to create my version of the Tiger. Anyway, from the restoration site comes the following quote: "Watching, as the turret came to rest upon the hull it was interesting to see that there was no appreciable change to the suspension. It remained as solid as ever despite all the extra weight." It is from this web page, where you can purchase one of the pics. So, I doubt you could add much in the way of crew, supplies fuel or even ammo that would change the suspension all that much. Seeing as everyone is oogling the Bovington pictures, you can help support this wonderfully dedicated group by purchasing soemthing from the museum website. A few bucks now might mean the difference between a running MkIV and just a static display. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 WOW thanks for the link R Leete!! I am most grateful. I am quite envious of the individuals who are able to participate in the restoration of WWII armor. Quite impressive. :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.