20mm Cannon for armored car

[Ohmpapa]

Just curious about the 20mm cannon the German scout cars used. When firing, does the cannon fire a burst of rounds or just one round at a time. In the game it sounds like it fires a burst of rounds, but I always had the impression it was one round at a time.

Anyone know?

[Sergei]

It fires a burst.

[Little_Black_Devil]

The 20mm KwK30 L/55 could fire single shots or on automatic.

In-game, it would appear to always fire in bursts.

[flamingknives]

It is a burst, but in game it is abstracted and counts as a single shot with improved to-hit and blast characteristics above a single shot.

[Oddball_E8]

Ah, but you seem to forget that there is also a few AC's with a single shot 20mm that is just listed as 20mm and not as 20mm KwK L50 or whatever. this does not fire burst and dont even have he IIRC

[flamingknives]

The single shot 20mm is in fact a 28mm squeeze-bore heavy ATR. 20mm is the final diameter of the shot, and the ammo load is exclusively tungsten (APCNR)

[Redwolf]

The CM abstraction only raises the hit probability, not the blast value.

[MikeyD]

I recall us all going around and around on the subject of 20mm vehicle cannons in CMBB. Russian 20mm vs German 20mm vs auto vs single shot. What it boiled down to was all 20mm cannons in the game are functionally the same (except for that heavy anti-tank rifle squeeze-bore thingy). Same sounds, same animation, same abstracted mutiple shot. It's less complicated in CMAK due to lack of Allied 20mm vehicle mounts.

..er, there aren't any Allied 20mm vehicle mounts in CMAK, right?

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by redwolf:

The CM abstraction only raises the hit probability, not the blast value.

I'm pretty sure that there are a few single shot 20mm firing HE - possibly some italian tanks in CMBB. Also 20mm ATR with HE. These have lower blast values than the 20mm Autocannon. IIRC, 20mm autocannon have a blast of 4, which is comparable to 37mm/40mm HE Equally, a Bofors autocannon has a blast of 26, which is somwhat higher than the blast for a 50mm gun which clocks in at around 15.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf:

The CM abstraction only raises the hit probability, not the blast value.

I'm pretty sure that there are a few single shot 20mm firing HE - possibly some italian tanks in CMBB. Also 20mm ATR with HE. These have lower blast values than the 20mm Autocannon. IIRC, 20mm autocannon have a blast of 4, which is comparable to 37mm/40mm HE Equally, a Bofors autocannon has a blast of 26, which is somwhat higher than the blast for a 50mm gun which clocks in at around 15. </font>

[flamingknives]

In CMBB there is an italian (or possibly romanian?) armoured car with a single shot 20mm autocannon the fires HE. One of the ATRs in CMBB has HE. The 40mm comparison holds in any case.

[Ohmpapa]

Heh,

I used to play Steel Panthers. I am sure some of you older grognards have played the WWII based game. The German armored car in Steel Panthers appeared to be firing its 20mm cannon one shot at a time. Of course, in CMAk it appears as a burst...so I got confused

In any case, could a single 20mm AP cannon round take out some of the earlier light tanks?

[guachi]

Sure. The penetration isn't any different between single and burst. Better burst FP, better to hit.

The 20mm ATR is very similar performance-wise to the 20mm cannon. I just did a quick scan and the 20mm looks like it could take out almost anything listed in the 'vehicle' section. Plus a few of the light British tanks at the right angle and range (Crusaders, the MkVI)

Jason

[Joachim]

The 20mm ATR is different from the 20mm automatic cannon.

Note the difference from the 250/11 with its 20mm ATR (168 tungsten only ammo, single shot thus lower hit prob, higher penetration) to a SdKfz 222 (40 or so bursts) with the 20mm auto that is even AA capable as it is the same gun as the GE 20mm FlaK.

IIRC the Italian 20L65 in their ACs are not auto cannons though the seem to be the same as one of the Italian 20mm AA guns. Those ACs have a huge ammo load but a low hit prob (besides being Italian, but AIUI the engine doesn't check for nationalities).

How it works:

Once you penetrate the armor, the round has to hit something important inside the tank. But as a tank is a cramped place, you may get lucky -especially if the round starts to bounce.

Gruß

Joachim

[Skolman]

Hungarian Csaba and early Toldi have 20mm single shot guns with even lower penetration zhan some AT rifles of the same calibre.