sand digger Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Just started paying attention to what these carriers do when sitting around within LOS of the ememy. They don't seem to do anything with their gun but I could be mistaken, will have to pay closer attention. Anyway, what is the go with these armoured gokarts, they have a gun, what are the ways to get them involved in the action? Besides doing a last minute flag rush or using them as AT rifle fire magnets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbvr Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Gday i pile as many troops as i can then rush them to a tree line or some type of cover saves walking tend to use them as a battle taxi for Hev weapons etc............ or in desert zig zag them towards the objective and get your infantry to advance through the dust much better than smoke need at least four for a good cloud..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I also use htem to create dust clouds at a distance to make the enemy think my tanks are where they are not : ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 In CMBO I once managed to use 3 or 4 of them as a flank screen. The German player was pushing infantry down that flank, and I had nothing left to send over there except the carrier - so off they went. It worked out rather well. Being vehicles they can reverse and keep their Brens towards the enemy. (FWIW, this was in Andreas' "Tessel Wood") Generally, though, I discount their armament and simply treat them as zippy, protected transport for small teams or A-Tk guns. The dust cloud thing is good though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisbech_lad Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Get a UC instead (without the bren) Put in Vickers/ 3" mortar/ 6 pdr. Drive close to where support weapon will be useful, disembark, position. Either hang around to relocate support weapon later, or drive back and get another one... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Historically, I think they were used in all the ways described here. I have a reprint of the wartime Carrier Platoon manual; the platoon was intended to be the "cavalry" on an infantry battalion, above we've seen example of use in CM that seem to mirror their real life usage. I don't know that conditions on the battlefield often allowed for their employment as such; often they were relegated to evacuating wounded and prisoners, and moving up food, ammo and water to the fighting companies. More of a Sergeant Major's taxi than a battle taxi. I know of one use, coincidentally taking place during the Scheldt fighting, when the Carrier Platoon of the Calgary Highlanders captured the rail station at Korteven. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimorodok Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I use them, and the MMG carriers (there's a difference in killing-ability, but i haven't noticed it in battle) for scouting out the flanks mostly, but they are also useful for backing up advancing infantry with some mobile, bullet-resistant firepower. Getting an LMG or MMG 20 meters from an enemy squad and letting rip is more devastating than MG fire from my last-held tree line 200 meters away. Lets me use my tanks as such The AT rifle version is of limited use (unlike the AT rifleman, it's hard to hide). The Universal carrier is useful as a battle taxi, but it needs defending vehicles to be used on any sort of assault. Of course, they can't hold out directly against most AT weapons (but they can run away fast), but I haven't seen them be easier to kill than most early-war tanks (I use carriers for both the Italians and the CW...and I use them a LOT in CMBB in the first 2 years.) It's possibly gamey, but when an AT gun or othet non-tank support weapon is discovered, it's often possible to rush them with 2-3 carriers in bounding-overwatch (slip in and out of the ATG's LOS with each carrier, keeps the ATG moving left-right-left without settling and firing, and if it does fire, and kill 1, you still have 2 more making the assault. But as the ATG rotates, if you have the assault setup correctly, as the ATG rotates towards one carrier, it will expose behind the shield to the other carriers, who can graciously machine-gun the crew, or get close enough and run them over) Of course, you should have SOME idea of the location/disposition of the enemy's OTHER AT assets (if you didn't, you will ) Of course, against tanks, or infantry in trenches or with AT assets in good overwatch, they are of limited direct offensive use...except as decoys. :eek: Zimorodok 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Depends on the target and the terrain. After all, they are smallarms-proof vehicles with machine guns. Against pure infantry out of range of their AT weapons they can cause quite some trouble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 Using them as scout vehicles has potential, do some of that borg spotting. One of the many great things about this game, there is always something to learn and develop 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozure Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 You can find many operations akin to what Michael describes in the official war diary of the Canadian Black Watch. A few more unusual moments in real-world WWII (Canadian) Universal Carrier usage from the same source: Calvary Charge: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/laird.niven/public_html/sept_44.htm Check out the entries for 29 Sept, which includes a description of a calvary-like rescue by the Carriers. Search and Rescue http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/laird.niven/public_html/oct_44.htm A search for a lost officer on 11 October Recce 29 October, 4th paragraph Flank Protection http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/laird.niven/public_html/april_45.htm 1 April I'm certain there's also a desription of the Carrier Platoon basically leading a battalion-sized attack somewhere in the diary, but I can't find it in a quick search. I've read the diary in its entirety twice, so I'm pretty sure it's in there, but I could be remembering incorrectly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbvr Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Gday all a little page i found on the net enjoy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbvr Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 while looking for sites on carriers i found this one seems to good not to share web page take a look some good info was sure i have seen a pedistal mounted bren on a uni carrier and one with a morter pos 3" did do a topic on this a while ago but lost info when i moved have fun all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbvr Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 hello people found it under topic Topic: Is it a bird... is it a plane... NO its a Bren Carrier... couple of sites have fun 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Originally posted by Rabidbvr: Gday all a little page i found on the net enjoy Of course, if your head is down and the carrier is below the crest, it's hard to really see anything... :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Originally posted by Andrew Hedges: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rabidbvr: Gday all a little page i found on the net enjoy ] Of course, if your head is down and the carrier is below the crest, it's hard to really see anything... :eek: </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
752ndTank Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 In case you're interested, there's a pretty decent photo of a Bren/Universal Carrier with a Vickers gun on my web page: http://www.752ndtank.com/SpecialDGPage2a.html Photo was taken in Bologna, Italy on 21 April 1945, and I believe it is from a Polish unit. The same web page also has a photo that might interest some of you. It shows an M4A1 of the 752nd Tank Battlion with an exit hole from an 88 that went in one side and clean through the other. Ciao! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Reading Blackburn's "The Guns of Normandy", I get the impression the carriers were used for holding the massive radios/batteries of that era. The carrier would be placed in hiding to the rear of the position, while the artillery observer would sneak forward unrolling a wire. He would talk by wire back to his partner at the carrier, who would transmit by radio. I am guessing that because of problems with radios of that era, if you didn't have a carrier to haul it with, you could be out of immediate and instant communication very quickly. I am guessing they were used more for command and control than actual front-line combat. Maybe some Grogs can straighten me out on this. I always feel it's unrealistic to deliberately expose the carriers after reading Blackburn. Thanks in advance, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Originally posted by kenfedoroff: Reading Blackburn's "The Guns of Normandy", I get the impression the carriers were used for holding the massive radios/batteries of that era. The carrier would be placed in hiding to the rear of the position, while the artillery observer would sneak forward unrolling a wire. He would talk by wire back to his partner at the carrier, who would transmit by radio.You think so? My impression while reading Blackburn was that his headset was plugged directly into the radio, but I may be mistaken. I thought the guy who stayed behind with the carrier was just the driver who was making sure that nobody made off with it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Ken and Michael - you are both right. Sort of. The radios the gunners used were big and bulky, since they needed the reliability and much greater range, to communicate within the div/corps area, than the infantry chaps they were supporting, who only really had to communicate with in the bn/coy area. To over come the tactical limitations of having a thumping great radio on the front lines, they also carried what was (and is) called a 'remote'. Basically, its an amp and a speaker, which you can plug the headset in to. It's quite small, so can be taken into little hidey holes, etc. But it isn't a radio. To get comms, the remote is connected by line to the radio in the carrier, and 'real' comms are established from there. AIUI, the radios could be dismounted from the carirers fairly easily, but since the carrier also had a battery charger, not much was gained. Useful for very extended duration OPs though, I suppose. Oh, also, IIRC, the FOs had access to man portable radios which allowed them to move with the infantry without sticking out like too much of a sore thumb "hmm, the Tommies are attacking us on foot ... wait, what's that? A single carrier is moving up with them - I wonder what's in that?" Comms with the regt would be established by relaying through the carrier which would be nearby. IIRC, there are examples of all three types of set up (straight off the carrier, remoted, and manpack) in Blackburn. Believe it or not, Spike Milligans memoirs - particularly the one set in North Africa/Tunisia - also has good examples of this stuff. Spike was an RA Signaller. The other use for remotes that I'm aware of is to fake out RDF equipment - the RDF gets a fix on the radio, while you are safe on the remote at the other end of the line. Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 JonS Thanks for setting me straight on that. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 No, thank you for prompting me to crack open Blackburn for the first time in too long. Incredibly well written and informative triolgy, that. Jon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by JonS: No, thank you for prompting me to crack open Blackburn for the first time in too long. Incredibly well written and informative triolgy, that. Jon I had no idea it was a trilogy! I thought there was just the one book. Christmas is coming soon, and Blackburn's other books (once I find out their titles) will make a great gift for the wife. Why... I can visualize the look of joy on her face even now... as she opens her presents Christmas Morn and says, "Oh Joy! More war books." (She always lets me borrow them to read.) Cheers, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by kenfedoroff: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS: No, thank you for prompting me to crack open Blackburn for the first time in too long. Incredibly well written and informative triolgy, that. Jon I had no idea it was a trilogy! I thought there was just the one book. Christmas is coming soon, and Blackburn's other books (once I find out their titles) will make a great gift for the wife. Why... I can visualize the look of joy on her face even now... as she opens her presents Christmas Morn and says, "Oh Joy! More war books." (She always lets me borrow them to read.) Cheers, Ken </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Sometimes "Normandy" and "Victory" are sold as a single book I think. Despite having no fighting in it "Where" is in some ways more interesting, from a technical/training POV anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by 752ndTank: In case you're interested, there's a pretty decent photo of a Bren/Universal Carrier with a Vickers gun on my web page: http://www.752ndtank.com/SpecialDGPage2a.html Photo was taken in Bologna, Italy on 21 April 1945, and I believe it is from a Polish unit.I don't think it's Polish, because AFAIK the Polish didn't have a motor battalion in Italy.. My best guess is that's its from C Coy, 4th/13th Frontier Force Rifles, 11 SA Armd Bde, 6th SA Armd Div, who were part of II US Corps at the time. http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/6SAdiv.htm But, as far as I can tell, a carrier with the circle on the side wouldn't normally have carried a Vickers. Or vice versa. Odd. On the other hand, from here: This was really outside the New Zealand Division's left boundary but it was no time for niceties; the support armour crossed at dusk, and armour supporting the Poles in a thrust to Bologna also used this crossing. At daybreak on Saturday, 21 April, the forward troops found themselves in a country where bridges were unblown, roads uncratered and houses undamaged. The Americans of Fifth Army and Poles of Eighth Army were in Bologna, ...Mayhap it was a Kiwi carrier ... but by then 22 NZ Motor Bn had been turned back into regular leg infantry. * shrug * Strange one. Jon [ October 31, 2004, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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