6 lb anti-tank gun

[Locksley]

Hi

Have to research the British 6lb anti-tank gun for a seminar of mine and have been searching desperately across the internet for ages but only end up with sites on minatures! Can anyone please advise as to where I can get some reliable info the gun and the tactics enployed by its users.

Cheers

P.S. especially its use in North Africa

[Wicky]

Originally posted by Locksley:

6lb anti-tank gun

Mr Picky will be along shortly, once he's stopped quivering like a heap of hysterical jelly

Googling "6-pdr anti tank gun" comes up with quite a few links

here's one to get you started with a few references to the '6-pdr'

<a href="http://www.army.mod.uk/linked_files/royal_artillery/rahs/autumnmeetalamein.pdf" target="_blank">THE ROYAL ARTILLERY HISTORICAL SOCIETY

Autumn Meeting, on Wednesday 9th October 2002, at Larkhill

A Presentation by Mr Robin Neillands

THE EIGHTH ARMY AND THE BATTLE OF ALAMEIN</a>

lotsa piccies

This site will need double checking as it's been ripped apart before with inaccuracies.

This rung a bell from what I've read... "At the end of 1940 the decision was made not to change an existing 2-pdr production line to 6-pdr but to wait until a new production facility was established. In part this was because 2-pdr could be produced quickly (at about 6 times the rate of 6-pdr) and the need was for production volume..." which led to fun for commonwealth troops in NA versus panzers till they got upgraded.

For your seminar have you thought of bringing the gun to life and demonstating its strengths and weaknesses in action in a projected CMAK battle from a laptop?

[ March 02, 2006, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Wicky:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Locksley:

6lb anti-tank gun

Mr Picky will be along shortly, once he's stopped quivering like a heap of hysterical jelly

</font>

[Locksley]

Oh dear sorry so it was, just my problem was I spelt it, as in the topic, 6lb rather than 6 pdr.

Note to self: remmember too work on you're speeling

Thanks

[Kingfish]

Good luck on your seminar of the 1750 pennyweight gun

[Sergei]

The little known fact about the 6 pdr gun is that it actually cost 6 Pounds for the British to produce, hence the name.

[John Kettler]

What is Mr. Picky's view regarding the use of a period after the acceptable abbreviations in the example given? Is it okay to write "6 pdr." and "6 pr." under Mr. Picky's stringent criteria?

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Locksley,

You need a better search term, such as "ordnance, QF, 6 pdr" and "6 pdr anti-tank tactics" for Internet search.

Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_6_pdr

Psych Central (clueless as to why this is here)

http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/QF_6_pdr

Omnipelagos.com Be sure to see LemaireSoft link

http://www.omnipelagos.com/entry?n=ordnance_%51%46_6_pounder

Mauspfeil.net (in translation)

http://www.mauspfeil.net/Ordnance_QF%206%20pounder.html

British Artillery of World War 2 (fabulous!)

http://members.tripod.com/~nigelef/anti-tank.htm

7th Armoured Division (from equipment list)

http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paterson/equipartillery.htm

" " (battles of 1942--6 pdr debut)

http://www.ian.a.paterson.btinternet.co.uk/battles1942.htm

CSI Battle Report: Alam Halfa

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/hart/hart.asp

Hope these are useful.

Regards,

John Kettler

[The_Enigma]

Originally posted by Sergei:

The little known fact about the 6 pdr gun is that it actually cost 6 Pounds for the British to produce, hence the name.

and nothing to do with the wieght of the shell (which was what was used to name every other gun in the arsnell)?

[Sergei]

Originally posted by the_enigma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

The little known fact about the 6 pdr gun is that it actually cost 6 Pounds for the British to produce, hence the name.

and nothing to do with the wieght of the shell (which was what was used to name every other gun in the arsnell)? </font>

[The_Enigma]

Originally posted by Sergei:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by the_enigma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

The little known fact about the 6 pdr gun is that it actually cost 6 Pounds for the British to produce, hence the name.

and nothing to do with the wieght of the shell (which was what was used to name every other gun in the arsnell)? </font>

[Sergei]

Still, you're talking about ammunition. I'm talking about guns. Or are you claiming that the 25 pounder gun weighed 25 pounds?

[The_Enigma]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Still, you're talking about ammunition. I'm talking about guns. Or are you claiming that the 25 pounder gun weighed 25 pounds?

The ammo hence the name of the gun.

2 pounder fired 2 pound shells, 6 pounder fires 6 pound shells (or near abouts) and so on.

link

now am just confused lol

[Sergei]

I don't trust your source, because it is in the Internet. Internet wasn't there during WW2 so clearly the British gunmakers couldn't have used a convention given on a webpage! My cost based name theory is more credible.

[The_Enigma]

Originally posted by Sergei:

I don't trust your source, because it is in the Internet. Internet wasn't there during WW2 so clearly the British gunmakers couldn't have used a convention given on a webpage! My cost based name theory is more credible.

well my mate said that he knew this guy who was saying that he had spoken to this dude who said it was true!

So mine is more credible!

[Wicky]

Today I chatted after lunch to an 85 year old gent in hospital on my ward who served in NA inc Alamein. He was an officer with 25 pdrs but he recollects his colleagues who used 6 pdrs in 1942 to devastating effect on the remnants of the Italian Ariete armoured division - the way he described it, it was a turkey shoot.

A really nice chap who was surprised at my interest.

[Kingfish]

My understanding is that the designation is a carry-over from the time of the iron cannonball, when the calibur of the gun was determined based on the weight of the shot. Therefore a 6 pd shot required a cannon of ~57mm. That calibur was then a standard carried over into modern times.

That said, it should be noted that this explanation is written and displayed on the internet, and thus lacks any credibility.

[The_Enigma]

... wouldnt a 6pound solid iron ball be somewhat bigger then just under 6cms?

[JonS]

Originally posted by Wicky:

Today I chatted after lunch to an 85 year old gent in hospital on my ward who served in NA inc Alamein. He was an officer with 25 pdrs ...

Oh oh!! Do you think he would be interested in writing down his memories of being a gunner officer? How he went about his day to day activities - you know, the suposedly mundane stuff that nobody bothers to record, and is rapidly being lost altogether. I'd certainly be interested in hearing about it if he did ...

[ParaBellum]

Originally posted by Kingfish:

...the calibur....That calibur...

"There drew he forth the brand Excalibur,

And o’er him, drawing it, the winter moon,

Brightening the skirts of a long cloud, ran forth

And sparkled keen with frost against the hilt:

For all the haft twinkled with diamond sparks,

Myriads of topaz-lights, and jacinth-work

Of subtlest jewellery."

[Wicky]

I'll try before he gets discharged - Amazing past few months on the ward with enough elderly patients to crew a couple of minesweepers and a Lancaster* and even a Dr who flew Seafires.

All of them have a quiet courageous attitude to their imminent demise forged after surviving when so many of their colleagues didn't.

I wonder if future generations will possess the same attitude in old age, borne of such unique experience...

* One was a Pilot, who was a sole survivor after a crash landing, still carrying the scars

Originally posted by JonS:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wicky:

Today I chatted after lunch to an 85 year old gent in hospital on my ward who served in NA inc Alamein. He was an officer with 25 pdrs ...

Oh oh!! Do you think he would be interested in writing down his memories of being a gunner officer? How he went about his day to day activities - you know, the suposedly mundane stuff that nobody bothers to record, and is rapidly being lost altogether. I'd certainly be interested in hearing about it if he did ... </font>

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by the_enigma:

... wouldnt a 6pound solid iron ball be somewhat bigger then just under 6cms?

By my calculations, 57mm diameter sphere of iron would weigh not much more than 760 grams, or 1.6 lbs for the old-fashioned types.

Since I'm pretty sure that the standard AP shot for the 17pdr does in fact weigh 17lbs, the rule may descend from that governing cannon nomenclature but does not relate to spheres.

It's also worth noting that 57mm (6pdr) and 76.2mm (17pdr) were fairly common calibres where imperial machinery or measurements still had an effect. I rather suspect that the shot weight that gave the gun its name was assigned to the calibre as being particularly suitable in aspect ratio or somesuch and the whole designed from there.

[Guest Mike]

"Poundage" can vary.

For example the Prussians for a long time used the weight of a stone ball that would fit in the bore of the gun - as late as the Franco-Prussian war IIRC their breachloaders were "4" and "6" pounders - which had nothing at all to do with the size of the guns IIRC, and the French also had some strange system at that time - their standard gun was a "6" pdr too.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by the_enigma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

Still, you're talking about ammunition. I'm talking about guns. Or are you claiming that the 25 pounder gun weighed 25 pounds?

The ammo hence the name of the gun.

2 pounder fired 2 pound shells, 6 pounder fires 6 pound shells (or near abouts) and so on.

link

now am just confused lol </font>

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

By my calculations, 57mm diameter sphere of iron would weigh not much more than 760 grams, or 1.6 lbs for the old-fashioned types.

Just out of curiosity, how much would a lead ball of those dimensions weigh? I know that the convention for larger guns used the weight of an iron ball, but this could be a unique case. In any event, a solid ogival shot for a WW II 6pdr does weigh in at close to 6 lbs., 6.28 to be exact. A shell with an HE filling would presumably be somewhat lighter.

Michael