redflag Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Unfortunately I suppose it's not possible to play the LRDG with their well-known Chevys and other dusty AFV. Any idea to find a solution? Alex 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozi_digger Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I'm reading a book on the LRDG right now. Scenarios would be raids on forts, running through ambushes and airfield raids. The problem I see is victory conditions. The LRDG never really hung around to 'capture the flag'. They were a hit and run mob. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Do a forum search. We had this discussion a while ago. I tested a scenario with a bunch of Jeeps but I can't remenber who made it. Edit: I did a search for lrdg and did not find what I was looking for. Maybe someone else will remember. [ September 07, 2005, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: junk2drive ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simovitch Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by junk2drive: Do a forum search. We had this discussion a while ago. I tested a scenario with a bunch of Jeeps but I can't remenber who made it. Edit: I did a search for lrdg and did not find what I was looking for. Maybe someone else will remember. It was my "HSG Operation Snowdrop" about Stirling's (SAS) abortive raid on Benghasi. It used to be on the now-defunct depot. email me and I'll be glad to send you a copy of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by redflag: Unfortunately I suppose it's not possible to play the LRDG with their well-known Chevys and other dusty AFV.Possibly because the LRDG didn't have any AFVs. Unfortunately, the game doesn't have the kinds of armed trucks they did use. Although there are armed jeeps, IIRC they aren't armed the way they were in the LRDG or SAS or PPA. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozi_digger Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Plus the LRDG used portees... 25pdr portees in some cases...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by ozi_digger: ... 25pdr portees in some cases...! You can document that? I would have thought the 25pdr too heavy to be carried in any of their trucks. And I am assuming that would just be for transport. Firing one off the back would seem...unlikely. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redflag Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by junk2drive: Do a forum search. We had this discussion a while ago. I tested a scenario with a bunch of Jeeps but I can't remenber who made it. Edit: I did a search for lrdg and did not find what I was looking for. Maybe someone else will remember. that's what I did 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redflag Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 OK so it is only possible to make a mod for the unarmed Chevys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 One game-engine problem with playing LRDG is you have some difficulty recreating the element of surprise. After all, shortly after turn one EVERYBODY expects to either be attacked or do the attacking! That is unless you create a freakin' huge sparcely populated map so they don't know where they're going to be pounced upon. The LRDG objective, I guess would then be to strike then get away before you're caught & thrashed by superior numbers. Points would be superfluous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozi_digger Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ozi_digger: ... 25pdr portees in some cases...! You can document that? I would have thought the 25pdr too heavy to be carried in any of their trucks. And I am assuming that would just be for transport. Firing one off the back would seem...unlikely. Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I concur with ozi digger's info Micheal Emrys, as I have the same interesting book about the existence and usage of a 25 pdr portee by the LRDG. It is well described and treated by Mike Morgan on pages 45-50 who used multible sources including from actual participants. In this short account it depicts the short lived LRDG's Royal Artillery Section in action. Firstly it mentions that some time in or after August 1941 it was Col. Ralph Bagnold's idea to create the RA Section for the LRDG to provide the capability to knock holes in any Italian fort. Origionally it was equipt with a 4.5 inch howitzer carried upon a 10 ton lorry and had also a light tank to be ustilised as an armoured Forward Observasion Post! (Not explained if it was intended to be a 4.5 inch portee.) :confused: His sources thinks that this equipment was handed over to Col. Leclerc and the Free French Army for the defence of Kufra, its base for the one LRDG mission it joined in, which occurred 13th - 18th of December 1941. The single 25 pdr portee was mainly tasked with providing forward observed indirectly fired shelling (ie from out of sight) on the Italian El Gtafia fort. The attack was made on the 16th and was successful due to the effect that the whole total of 14 shells fired by the gun in inducing the garrison to flee or surrender. After the raid during the return journey the portee's lorry became kaputt, according to Bill Morrison in a first person account and if I'm reading it correctly on the 18th, and abondoned while the 25 pdr gun had to be towed back by another truck of the patrol. So this was just one 25 pdr portee used on one occation and therefore should not be required in any CM simulation IMHO, especially considering that it fired all its rounds completely indirectly. So it funtioned essentially as a SPA piece. BTW this interesting experimental invention reminds me of a field workshop innovation that I recall with pictures of a SP ATG from the Eastern Front. An account of its employment under its commander Hans Woltersdorf along with two snow crusted pictures of it are in "Das Reich" 'The Military History of the 2nd SS Division', by James Lucas. It consisted of a 50mm Pak 38 weild-mounted for forwards fire from upon a one ton half-track, which some small unit of the Das Reich Kampfgroup used to K.O. T-34s in the Ukraine during the Winter of 43-44! :eek: [ September 10, 2005, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Thanks Ozi and Zalgiris. Do either of you happen to know whether the 25pdr was carried on one of their usual Chevrolet 30cwt 4X2 or on a Marmon-Herrington 6X4? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 What the bloody hell do you want know that for Michael? :confused: Though I guess you might have your own modelling reasons such as how to strut your stuff, pose, bendover for a verticle smile and so you can match which shoes to wear! Anyway this may help with your conumdrum, and I quote from the account in the book directly: "The RA Section was then issued with a 25 pdr porte ( sic ) (carried and fired on the back of an LRDG truck)." P. 46. "The equipment was a 25-pounder artillery gun mounted pointing over the tail of a 10-ton Mack truck, which also carried the men, their gear and a load of ammunition.'...'The Mack was heavy.'...' We were not popular with the Rhodesians, but the firepower when we attacked the Italian fort at El Gtafia certainly was. The Mack was kept out of sight behind a ridge while Blitz and Jim, unreeling the cable, went over the brow to have a view of the fort. The patrol trucks took up positions; Blitz worked out the range and gave the order to fire. A correction or two and the fun was over. All the others advanced on the fort and some time latter returned with four prisoners. We moved away from the area and the patrol went off on other jobs while we waited." P.48. "When the patrol and Blitz returned...we set off back, travelling at night. The going was rough, mud flats surrounded by small hammocks, and the Mack rode them badly. The engine stalled and the battery was too flat to turn the heavy diesel motor over. We tried cranking her, but even with a rope and two teams of pullers it was too heavy. It didn't work and John Olivey wanted to move on, so eventually it was decided to abandon the truck. Blitz would not abandon his gun though, and it was towed behind a patrol truck while the rest of us stowed ourselves amoung the other vehicles and we all returned to Jalo." P. 49. Other than all that it doesn't state specifically, but IMO however I think and especially from Bill Morrison's first person account above, consider the apparent distinction between the portee Mack truck (as heavier I should think) and the other patrol trucks and how they operated very differently. [ September 10, 2005, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 "difficulty recreating the element of surprise" No, that's easy. You just put the raid-ees under the tender care of the AI... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 The only mention of a 25 pdr portee I've found is here. It mentions the: Ford Portee - 25-pdr based on Ford 3-ton 4x4 chassis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Originally posted by Zalgiris 1410: "The equipment was a 25-pounder artillery gun mounted pointing over the tail of a 10-ton Mack truck...Ah, that's what I was looking for. Thanks, Zalgiris. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I have a scenario that involves both the LRDG and the Italian Auto Saharan Company, the Italian version of the LRDG. It too was on the now defunct Scenario Depot. For those interested you can email me and I will send it to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I only have CMAK in 1.01 version does anyone know if that's going to be a problem for playing solo a dawnloaded senario though I've been able to do that a bit so far, but I definately haven't been able to play PBEM with an opponent with the 1.03 version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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