Best of the best in the second world war

[Lord Harmes]

Erm... what about the SAS??? In particular Paddy Mayne?

[_Axe_]

I've always been in awe of Aubrey Cosens.

I was born in Kirkland Lake, Ontario and, whenever we went back to visit relatives, my father would stop in Latchford where the Aubrey Cosens Memorial Bridge is located, spanning the Montreal River.

There is a plaque commemorating Cosens, a winner of the Victoria Cross.

So what did he do?

Just this:

In Holland on the night of 25th-26th February 1945, the 1st Battalion, The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada launched an attack on the hamlet of Mooshof, to capture ground which was considered essential for the development of future operations.

Sergeant Cosens' platoon, with two tanks in support, attacked enemy strong points in three farm buildings, but were twice beaten back by fanatical enemy resistance and then fiercely counter-attacked, during which time the platoon suffered heavy casualties and the platoon commander was killed.

Sergeant Cosens at once assumed command of the only other four survivors of his platoon, whom he placed in a position to give him covering fire, while he himself ran across open ground under heavy mortar and shell fire to the one remaining tank, where, regardless of the danger, he took up an exposed place in front of the turret and directed his fire.

After a further enemy counter-attack had been repulsed, Sergeant Cosens ordered the tank to attack the farm buildings, while the four survivors of his platoon followed in close support. After the tank had rammed the first building he entered it alone, killing several of the defenders and taking the rest prisoner.

Single-handed he then entered the second and third buildings, and personally killed or captured all the occupants, although under intense machine-gun and small arms fire.

Just after the successful reduction of these important enemy strong points, Sergeant Cosens was shot through the head by an enemy sniper and died almost instantly.

The outstanding gallantry, initiative and determined leadership of this brave N.C.O., who himself killed at least twenty of the enemy and took an equal number of prisoners, resulted in the capture of a position which was vital to the success of the future operations of the Brigade.

Taken from here.

In an interesting sidenote, the bridge failed last year and they've had to make massive repairs to it.

There also an excellent site about him here.

[Lord Harmes]

I still think the SAS is probably one of the more legendary unit that came about in WW2...

here's a link http://home.hccnet.nl/22.sas/

there are many good books about the SAS, one of the best being Daggers Drawn, as it describes many of the actions they fought through personal accounts!

[btm]

Regarding aerial victory claims:

Read Combat Kill by Hugh Morgan and Jurgen Seibel. This book examines in detail the procedures used by the major combatants for claiming and evaulating victory claims.

As for best of the best, I would also suggest "Hub" Zemke, whose 56th Fighter Group was the top scoring FG in the ETO.

Also, worth mentioning:

-Carlson's Raiders

-Any of the U.S. Army Ranger Battalions, both ETO and PTO (esp. 2nd)

-Merrill's Marauders

-Wingate's "Chindits"

-U.S. 1st Air Commando Group, CBI

-U.S. 601st Tank Destroyer Battalion: 155 AFV kills, 11 Aircraft downed

[Big Jim]

SAS best special ops unit (how many of the many other spec ops units from WWII are kicking around today, and still the best to boot?).

The Kiwis and the Finns were pretty hardy little buggers, but in an overall sense- tactically, strategically, and in tenacity: the Germans. They had the new ideas, the skill and the balls (stupidity?) to take on the three most powerful countries in the world. And almost win. No prizes for second place though, eh?

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by btm:

Regarding aerial victory claims:

Read Combat Kill by Hugh Morgan and Jurgen Seibel. This book examines in detail the procedures used by the major combatants for claiming and evaulating victory claims.

Thanks for the tip...I've always wanted to see a through examination of these kill claims. My bias at this point is to feel that the kill claims of all sides are probably exaggerated, but that some must be more exaggerated than others.

My sense is that the German claims may also be exaggerated to a significant degree. Certainly that seems true in the Battle of Britain, where German claims were so exaggerated that Goering thought he was winning the battle when he was actually losing it. I suspect claims on the Russian front were even more exaggerated, but that war was so sprawling that it must be hard to check. Anyone know if the Morgan/Siebel book explores the Russian front to any degree?

Meanwhile, this has been a fun thread. I find it hard to quarrel with Jason C's list, and at the same time my mouth is watering for some of the Bulgarian field kitchen food.

[Dave H]

Speaking of best of the best, here's a unique guy's entry from an on-line encyclopedia.

Otto Skorzeny (June 12, 1908 - July 5, 1975) was a colonel in the German Waffen-SS during World War II and is considered by many as the best commando in the history of modern warfare.

Born into a middle-class Austrian family with a long history of military service, Skorzeny was a noted fencer as a student in Vienna in the 1920s. He engaged in fifteen personal duels, and on the tenth of these he received a wound that left a dramatic scar on his cheek. He joined the Austrian Nazi Party in 1931 and soon became a Nazi storm trooper. He showed aptitude as a leader of men from the very beginning, and even played a minor role in the German takeover of Austria on March 12, 1938, when he saved the Austrian President Wilhelm Miklas from being shot by Nazi roughnecks.

When the war broke out a year later, Skorzeny, then working as a civil engineer, volunteered for service in the Luftwaffe (German Air Force) but was turned down because he was over the age of 30. Failing that, he turned to the Waffen-SS, the military branch of Germany's elite storm troopers. On February 21, 1940, Skorzeny went off to war with one of its most famous units, the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler and fought with distinction in the campaigns against the Soviet Union in 1941 and 1942 before being wounded and returning to Germany in December of 1942, a winner of the Iron Cross for bravery under fire.

After Skorzeny had recovered from his wounds, a friend in the SS recommended him to the German military leadership as a possible leader of commando forces Hitler wanted to create. It was in this role, in July 1943, that he was asked personally by Hitler to rescue Benito Mussolini, the dictator of Italy and a friend of Hitler's, who had been removed from power and imprisoned by the Italian government.

Almost two months of cat-and-mouse followed, as the Italians moved Mussolini from place to place in order to frustrate any would-be rescuers. Finally, on September 12, Skorzeny led a daring glider-based assault on the Gran Sasso Hotel, high in the Apennines mountains, and rescued Mussolini with very few shots being fired. The exploit earned Skorzeny worldwide fame, promotion to major and the Knight's Cross, another major German military honor.

On July 20, 1944, Skorzeny was in Berlin when a plot against Hitler's life was hatched, with German officials attempting to seize control of the country's vital organs before the dictator recovered from his injuries. Skorzeny helped put the rebellion down in the capital, actually spending 36 hours in charge of the German army's central command center before being relieved.

In October 1944, Hitler sent Skorzeny to Hungary when he received word that the country's Regent, Miklos Horthy was secretly negotiating his country's surrender to the Red Army. This surrender would have cut off a million German troops fighting in the Balkan peninsula. Skorzeny, in another daring "snatch" operation, kidnapped Horthy's son Nicolas and forced his father to abdicate as Regent. A pro-German government was installed in Hungary and fought with Germany until that country was overrun by the Red Army.

Two months later, Skorzeny led a panzer brigade of German soldiers in the Battle of the Bulge disguised as American soldiers in an operation known as Operation Greif. A handful were captured by the Americans and spread a rumor that Skorzeny was leading a raid on Paris to kill or capture General Eisenhower; this was untrue, but the Americans believed it and Eisenhower was confined to his headquarters for weeks.

He spent the first two months of 1945 commanding regular troops in the defense of the German province of Pomerania as an acting major general. For this defense, Hitler awarded him Germany's highest military honor, the Oak Leaves to the Knight's Cross.

Skorzeny surrendered to the Allies in May and was held as a prisoner of war for more than two years before being tried as a war criminal for his actions in the Battle of the Bulge. However, he was acquitted when a British colonel testified in his defense that Allied commando forces also fought in enemy uniform. Still, he continued to be held until he escaped from a prison camp on July 27, 1948.

He settled in Fascist Spain with a passport granted by its dictator, Francisco Franco and resumed his prewar occupation as an engineer. In 1952, he was finally cleared by the German government of any wrongdoing in the war, which enabled him to travel abroad. Later on, he worked as a consultant to the Egyptian President Gamel Abdel Nasser and the Argentine dictator Juan Peron, and is rumoured to have assisted several of his friends in the SS escape arrest in the years after the war.

Skorzeny died a multi-millionaire in Madrid in 1975.

[_Axe_]

No Audie Murphy yet?!?

Citation For Medal of Honor Recipient

Audie L. Murphy

Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army, Company B, 15th Infantry, 3d Infantry Division.

Place and date: Near Holtzwihr France, 26 January 1945.

Entered service at: Dallas, Tex. Birth: Hunt County, near Kingston, Tex.

G.O. No.65, 9 August 1945.

CITATION: 2d Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by 6 tanks and waves of infantry. 2d Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to prepared positions in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, 1 of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. 2d Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, 2d Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from 3 sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate 2d Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. 2d Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.

Here's the complete list of his decorations. How the man stood up straight, I'll never know.

* Medal of Honor

* Distinguished Service Cross

* Silver Star with First Oak Leaf Cluster

* Legion of Merit

* Bronze Star Medal with "V" Device and First Oak Leaf Cluster

* Purple Heart with Second Oak Leaf Cluster

* U.S. Army Outstanding Civilian Service Medal

* Good Conduct Medal

* Distinguished Unit Emblem with First Oak Leaf Cluster

* American Campaign Medal

* European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal with One Silver Star, Four Bronze Service Stars (representing nine campaigns) and one Bronze Arrowhead (representing assault landing at Sicily and Southern France)

* World War II Victory Medal

* Army of Occupation Medal with Germany Clasp

* Armed Forces Reserve Medal

* Combat Infantry Badge

* Marksman Badge with Rifle Bar

* Expert Badge with Bayonet Bar

* French Fourragere in Colors of the Croix de Guerre

* French Legion of Honor, Grade of Chevalier

* French Croix de Guerre With Silver Star

* French Croix de Guerre with Palm

* Medal of Liberated France

* Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 Palm

[CombinedArms]

It's possible some grogs thought Audie M. was too obvious. Anyway, no doubt he was a good one.

Forgot to mention a couple of my own "best" candidates:

1. Best anti-submarine commander: Johnny Walker, RN. Escort and support groups under his command sank 20 German U-boats. Walker's war was short since he died in July 1944 from a heart condition brought on by strain and overwork.

2. Best single anti-sub vessel: The US destroyer-escort England: "On 18 May 1944, with two other destroyers, ENGLAND cleared Port Purvis on a hunt for Japanese submarines during a passage to Bougainville. During the next 8 days, she was to set an impressive record in antisubmarine warfare, never matched in World War II by any other American ship, as she hunted down and sank I-16 on 19 May, RO-106 on 22 May, RO-104 on 23 May, RO-116 on 24 May, and RO-108 on 26 May. In three of these cases, the other destroyers were in on the beginning of the actions, but the kill in every case was ENGLAND's alone. Quickly replenishing depth charges at Manus, ENGLAND was back in action on 31 May to join with four other ships in sinking RO-105. This superlative performance won for ENGLAND a Presidential Unit Citation, and the assurance from the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral E. J. King, "There'll always be an ENGLAND in the United States Navy." His pledge was fulfilled 6 October 1960, when DLG-22 was assigned the name ENGLAND.

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by yacinator:

Bugger. You've probably forgotten what you were going to say, because you'd decided to rush back and respond to me on the ATLCTNBTMAGASUPERCALAFRAGALISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS thread.

Good on you, lad. It's about time. I mean, after all that harsh language and really super ideas, I'd expect no less than a really brilliant reply!

[JonS]

suck u feanachai - where's my fecking turn?! Three geological ages have I waited for it!

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Axe2121:

I've always been in awe of Aubrey Cosens.

More on him at my own website:

Too bad the URL you provided spelled his name wrong (Aubrey Cousins is listed in the window bar at the bottom of my screen)! :eek:

Trivia quiz - which regiment's headdress is he wearing in the only known photo of him in military garb?

Rifleman Don Chittenden of the Queen's Own Rifles served in Aubrey Cosens' platoon. The following is taken from the February 1994 issue of Legion Magazine, and is in Rifleman Chittenden's own words.

It was still raining. We had dug our slit trenches in the farmer's fields and were huddled in our gas capes, trying to keep as dry as possible. We felt the February cold, too. We had been huddled near a (German) hamlet called Mooshof for five hours.

We had marched along wet roads congested with all kinds of military equipment, some of which we had never seen at close range before. We were part of an enormous assault that would erupt long before dawn. All movement was aided by the artificial moonlight created by numerous searchlights in our front lines.

A terrific artillery barrage was unleashed, an enormous amount of metal going over our heads. We wondered why we could actually see some of the stuff going over and speculated about tracer artillery shells.

.

I was a teenage rifleman in 16 Platoon...Sergeant Aubrey Cosens came frequently to each slit trench; I think he was trying to lift our spirits. We were two men to a trench, but there was little talk. There was too much on our minds, and we were wet and cold. Most were probably too nervous to be hungry - not that we would get any food right then anyway. When Cosens finally came to tell us that we were starting our assault in a few minutes, we got out of the trenches and started fussing with our equipment. We took off our gas capes and rolled them up tightly. My buddy and I helped each other strap gas capes to the centre of our web belts, in the small of our backs. This kept the cape out of the way. A rifleman wanted as low a profile as possible when he had to drive to the ground under sudden fire

Every lad in our outfit agreed that the most important piece of equipment an infantryman had was his short, D-handled shovel. We helped each other with these, too. The handle had to be inserted through the cross-straps on our backs.

This time, I couldn't fasten my web belt because the rain had made it shrink a little. The webbing was not designed for easy adjustment and my fingers were stiff from the cold. This was complicated by the fact that some time earlier, in Nijmegen, our lieutenant had made me platoon runner. I don't know why he did this, because he already had a runner. But the lieutenant wanted me to carry his Very pistol all the time, and I had failed to properly adjust the web belt to carry the extra burden.

When Cosens came by again, he noted my difficulty and offered to help. You can imagine the ridiculous scene: here was Cosens kneeling in the mud before me, trying to get my belt done up while all kinds of death-dealing metal flew overhead. It was if I were a not-too-bright youngster who was late for Sunday school, and his mother was trying to get him presentable and on his way. Looking down at the top of the sergeant's helmet I started to laugh. I stuck my thumb in my mouth to complete the picture, and when Cosens looked up into my face he roared with laughter too. It was a great tension-reliever.

As we were advancing roughly abreast towards the hamlet, I was with the lieutenant awhile, but later we were separated. I was eventually on point, slightly to one side, a few yards past the hamlet and deep into enemy territory. I came to a root pile, the type German and Dutch farmers built by laying two or three feet of straw on the ground, then pile on turnip-like vegetables in a large mound and covered the whole thing with more straw and then earth. Their winters are milder than ours, and the cattle can munch on the root pile all winter, exposing the food as needed.

I came to a dead stop because there was a Jerry with a Spandau machine-gun on top of the pile. Scared stiff, I finally realized that he hadn't chewed me up because he didn't want to risk his own life in killing just one rifleman and drawing my comrades' attention to himself. I wasn't worth killing. I started to walk slowly backwards, until we could no longer see each other. The German probably left the root pile soon after I did, because I would surely tell the others about his location.

The the real hell broke loose. A heavy enemy artillery barrage opened up while I was in the open, all alone and still a few yards past the hamlet. I survived because of the accuracy of the German barrage; the barrage reached into the hamlet and killed many of my buddies, even those who were in the Jerry slit trenches. I crawled to a small shell hole made earlier by one of our 25-pounders and was able to get my head and shoulders partly below ground. I was hit by flying dirt and there was terrible noise and smell from the exploding shells, but I was unscratched by those landing a few yards away.

When the shelling stopped I walked towards the houses. One comrade was lying in a shell hole and told me where his various shrapnel wounds were, bravely making no fuss. We both knew that although he was in pain he would survive. Meanwhile, the business of getting the Jerries out of the houses had to resume.

Halfway between two houses, I came upon the body of Corporal Fraser. I was stunned, because I had shared a billet in Nijmegen with him. He had liked the song You're So Dumb, But You're So Beautiful but didn't know the lyrics. He'd sing the first line, then pause for about a second, and sing: "You're so (expletive) dumb it really hurts me." Then we'd both laugh. He must have done this a hundred times.

Fraser was now lying dead at my feet, and I was staring down at him. Cosens dashed up beside me and said, "Chitt, you're going to get your ass shot off." He gripped Fraser's collar and webbing and dragged his body toward the wall of one of the houses. He already was thinking about the 1st Hussars tank in our area, and that he would enlist its help in silencing the Spandau machine-gun that had killed Fraser. He didn't want Fraser's body crushed by the tank.

When he couldn't communicate with the commander of the tank because of the noise, poor light and because the tank commander in the turret could not expose himself in that high perch, Cosens raced across open ground and climbed up onto it in the midst of a hail of machine-gun fire. There was tracer ammunition mixed in, so that two of us who shared a slit trench a few feet away could see bullets rattling off the tank as the Spandau gunner sprayed it.

Cosens got behind the turret and gained the attention of the tank commander, then pointed to where the machine-gun was at the moment. Two or three shells from the tank made the bricks and roof tiles fly, giving us instant relief. One more German mother lost her son.

We found when we started house-cleaning a few minutes later that several Jerries were holed up in the cellar of one of the houses. As we had taken a severe mauling, Wagner and I wanted to use grenades. Cosens was on the other side of the front doorway with a rifleman, trying to talk us out of it. He moved into plain sight in the improving light and started shouting to the Jerries to come out and give themselves up. By thus exposing himself he was trying to gain their confidence. It worked: we got 14 Jerries out of that house.

We had to dispose of these prisoners, so Cosens told a few of us to take them behind the lines. It was the last time I saw Cosens alive.

With the platoon commander dead, and only four of his men still standing, Cosens managed to secure the objective and position the remnants of 16 Platoon for further action. While he was on his way back to the company commander to report his platoon's situation, a German sniper put a bullet into Cosen's brain.

Aubrey Cosens was twenty-three years old.

[ May 06, 2004, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by JonS:

suck u feanachai - where's my fecking turn?! Three geological ages have I waited for it!

You do know that you and Bastables have always been my favourite Kiwis, don't you?

Patience. Like death, everything comes to those who wait, but Death has a lot easier time running down and disemboweling those who flop about shouting 'Oooh, I'm waiting for me fecking turn, I am'.

[Ant]

Otto Skorzeny (June 12, 1908 - July 5, 1975) was a colonel in the German Waffen-SS during World War II and is considered by many as the best commando in the history of modern warfare.

I'm sure there was a discussion on this forum about this guy a wee while back.

As far as I remember he was greatly over-rated and had very little active role in the rescuing of Mussolini. He was more or less just along for the ride as a passenger but greatly exaggerated his own role.

At least that's what I remember a few of the grogs saying

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by JonS:

suck u feanachai - where's my fecking turn?! Three geological ages have I waited for it!

Speaking of being kept waiting, where's my copy of the bloody Bieville Scenario you antipodal laggard? The mail you sent me only contained the briefings (which, I may add, I had already read in the process of proofreading them for you out of the kindness and goodness of my heart *cough, cough*). Ungrateful beggar.

Michael

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Ant:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Otto Skorzeny (June 12, 1908 - July 5, 1975) was a colonel in the German Waffen-SS during World War II and is considered by many as the best commando in the history of modern warfare.

I'm sure there was a discussion on this forum about this guy a wee while back.

As far as I remember he was greatly over-rated and had very little active role in the rescuing of Mussolini. He was more or less just along for the ride as a passenger but greatly exaggerated his own role.

At least that's what I remember a few of the grogs saying </font>

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Andreas:

As for best of the best - any infantryman in any army who had to face the daily horror of the frontline, knowing that the ultimate and only way out was death, mutilation, or an end to the war, with the latter being the least likely. I will never understand how one does cope with that.

Mass insanity helps. And mortal dread of one's sergeant.

BTW, you misspelled 'assent'.

Michael

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Dave H:

Skorzeny was a noted fencer as a student in Vienna in the 1920s. He engaged in fifteen personal duels, and on the tenth of these he received a wound that left a dramatic scar on his cheek.

Now I would not call them duels... it is just that there is no English word for what he did and you do some kind of fencing with sharp weapons. Usually the worst thing to happen is to get such a significant scar on the cheek - what is still scary enough for many.

Gruß

Joachim

[euronator]

Best pilot: Ilmari Juutilainen (Fin)

94½ kills without a single hit from enemy fighters.

Eino Ilmari Juutilainen

Ilmari Juutilainen - Finland's Ace of Aces

[JonS]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS:

suck u feanachai - where's my fecking turn?! Three geological ages have I waited for it!

Speaking of being kept waiting, where's my copy of the bloody Bieville Scenario you antipodal laggard? The mail you sent me only contained the briefings (which, I may add, I had already read in the process of proofreading them for you out of the kindness and goodness of my heart *cough, cough*). Ungrateful beggar.</font>

[dieseltaylor]

UK/CW for invention in artillery and funnies!

17pdr and 6pdr and APDS - if you consider where we might be without them !!!

AVRE & Crocodile

and Merlin was magic for the Mustang!! let alone any other plane.

[Michael Emrys]

Pratt & Whitney R-2800. In terms of powering huge numbers of first class aircraft, probably even beats the Merlin, although not by a lot.

Michael

[BigMik1]

Well I will throw this in the hat!! The best panzer commander:

Michael Wittmann

It's a honor when everyone tries to take credit killing you in battle.

BigMik1

[Other Means]

best operation: Bagration.

1,700,000 troops supported by 6,000 aircraft, nearly 3,000 tanks, and 24,000 artillery pieces. This attack destroyed Army Group Center and was the most disastrous defeat suffered by the Germans in the war, costing the Wehrmacht more men and material than the defeat at Stalingrad.

most unsung service: British merchant marine.

[flamingknives]

The Merlin - any aircraft it was fitted into became good, if not brilliant.