unsupported AFV's

[ZOR58]

I have been playing some of the CMAK scenarios that have tanks only. How do you scout when useing vehicles only? Seems the first sign I have that the enemy is around is when my lead vehicle explodes.

Thanks.

[Le Tondu]

Well, that may be the case in any event. Just be able to back up that lead vehicle with a tank -and have some overwatch tanks.

Creep up to that hilltop (or to the edge or those woods) and peek. Do it with your least valuable asset and follow closely with tanks in order to quickly punish his tanks if he shoots first. Another idea is to lay ambushes for him. Set it up by hiding your tanks and be real patient.

[junk2drive]

It seems to happen with armoured cars and halftracks too so don't feel bad. Just part of the game. Some scenarios with combined units, if you walk troops ahead to scout, you end up too late into the battle. Depends on the designer and the opponent.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

One thing to remember is that vehicles must fight together. It is a numbers game. One AFV in LOS of two is a target. A platoon means you may lose one, but you kill both of them.

In simple terms, stay fairly close and cover each other.

[MikeyD]

Reading the book 'Death Traps" I was struck by how common it was for U.S. armor to quickly outrun its infantry support. Armor units would sometimes find themselves bedding down for the night separated from their infantry by a good 20 miles! There was a big differnce between tanks doing infantry support (moving little more than a thousand meters at a time) and cavalry exploitation.

In all armor QBs I've been doing 'move to contact' slowly through scattered trees. The theory is if you get spotted first it'll be a partial contact with an increased chance of a first round miss. Of ourse then you have to back away through the trees again, which isn't exactly speedy.

[Salkin]

Recon by fire is good .

//Salkin

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by ZOR58:

I have been playing some of the CMAK scenarios that have tanks only. How do you scout when useing vehicles only? Seems the first sign I have that the enemy is around is when my lead vehicle explodes.

Well, then you have the crew on your map, so there's your scout squad

[Michael Emrys]

Always a silver lining, eh, Redwolf?

Michael

[Redwolf]

Hey, people told me I'm too negative, so I make the best half-full glass out of every situation now

[Panzer76]

Use S&S or fastmove/reverse order to peak over hills etc to draw fire.

[ZOR58]

while using S&S my tanks look at the target, sit there, and then back up without firing. Then while backing up the AT gun blows them up. Have tried using S&S with Target and Coverd Arc but no joy. I am currently down 11 tanks for 2 AT Guns.

Thanks.

[Michael Emrys]

Are you having several of your tanks pop up at once? What Vergeltungswaffe posted is absolutely critical in situations like this. A tank by itself dies quickly, but a whole platoon become a formidable fighting force that stand a much better chance of doing some serious damage before they die.

Michael

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by ZOR58:

while using S&S my tanks look at the target, sit there, and then back up without firing. Then while backing up the AT gun blows them up. Have tried using S&S with Target and Coverd Arc but no joy. I am currently down 11 tanks for 2 AT Guns.

Thanks.

Your question (and my response to) was how to recon with vehicles only. What you are trying to do here is to KO AT guns, not recon it would seem.

To engange AT guns with vehicles only you need multiple tanks enganging it, at the same time. Preferably from different angles as to force the AT gun to use time rotating.

Also, some tanks etc are better suited (but in general, this is not what tanks are supposed to do!) than others to KO ATGs.

[ZOR58]

I am attacking with tanks only across open desert against a set defense using Anti-Tank guns and infantry. I tried using S&S but the tanks are sitting there without firing and then getting toasted when they begin to scoot back into cover.

Thanks.

[Other Means]

It sounds like you're sitting in the dust cloud created by your movement. Even the smallest amount of dust cuts off LOS. Check the wind direction & move obliquely to the target, then make small movement lines in the direction of the ATG.

[Michael Emrys]

No, if it were the dust, then the AT guns couldn't shoot at him either. Most likely the problem is that the guns are a much more difficult target to spot, especially if the tanks happen to be buttoned.

Michael

[ZOR58]

Had not thought about the AT guns being harder to spot. Thanks for all the replies.

[Michael Emrys]

AT guns can be much harder to spot, especially the early war ones with a really small silhouette. I think the fact that your tanks are moving makes them even easier to spot at a distance—at least it should, realistically speaking.

Question: are you playing against the AI or a live opponent?

Michael

[ZOR58]

I'm playing against the AI.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by ZOR58:

I'm playing against the AI.

In that case, you might want to start the battle over again. This time, divide your tanks into two groups if you have enough (10 or more). Advance one group as a group at high speed. Halt them as soon as they come under fire and advance the second group beyond the first group until they in turn come under fire. Hopefully at this time your first group has enough survivors to have spotted the AT guns and brought them under fire. Your second group, enjoying borg spotting, can also bring them under fire. The closer you can bring your tanks, the more likely they are to spot the guns, and the more tanks you have on the field, the likelier you are to spot them. And the more tanks you have shooting, the likelier you are to kill them before they get all your tanks. As was said earlier, it is largely a numbers game.

P.S. If you have anything that shoots smoke, lay down a curtain of smoke until you can get within a useful range. Then unmask only a part of the enemy's positions at a time, until you have dealt with those guns. Then move on to the next part of the line. Again, it's a numbers game. Ideally, you'd like all your tanks shooting at only one of his guns at a time with only it returning fire.

Michael

[Other Means]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

No, if it were the dust, then the AT guns couldn't shoot at him either. Most likely the problem is that the guns are a much more difficult target to spot, especially if the tanks happen to be buttoned.

Michael

Depends if he's scooting in the reciprocal direction.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Other Means:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

No, if it were the dust, then the AT guns couldn't shoot at him either. Most likely the problem is that the guns are a much more difficult target to spot, especially if the tanks happen to be buttoned.

Michael

Depends if he's scooting in the reciprocal direction. </font>

[Other Means]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Other Means:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

No, if it were the dust, then the AT guns couldn't shoot at him either. Most likely the problem is that the guns are a much more difficult target to spot, especially if the tanks happen to be buttoned.

Michael

Depends if he's scooting in the reciprocal direction. </font>

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Other Means:

As part of wriggling out of saying "oops yeah" I thought if he was S&Sing and set the scoot at say 90 degrees to the shoot, he'd be backing out of any dust cloud created.

You really think he'd do that, hunh?

Michael

[ZOR58]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think it was probably how hard the AT guns are to spot. I had been trying to destroy them at long range once located but will try closing and targeting more tanks per gun.