Mies Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Ask your Gramp about the concentration camp. If I'm not mistaken Mauthausen was just south of Munich across the Austrian border. This should narrow down the location and the time, cause IIRC it was liberated somewhere during the last week of April '45. Mies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 True, it most likely wasn't Aushwitz I don't really remember which one he said. I'll find out. I do know that he was in Europe until 46' though, and from 42-43 he was in Munich. I remember him saying how he was told he would come home after two years and "I never made it back until 1946!" he said. does anyone know where I can view some good closeups of Stalin?? I want to be 100 sure it's him but I'm about 99.23456677354533% sure right now. I think I can even make out a Russian looking symbol on his shoulder. After the pictures are scanned and enlarged I will be able to zoom in on that symbol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 I just want to lay out my agenda for how I will progress with the "picture mystery" Tuesday, Jan 28 - I have flattened out 4 pictures without damaging them and will continue to carefully flatten them between two clean sheets of white printer paper and heavy books. So far this has worked well (at least until i figure out a better way). I will also get an exact count of the pictures I have. Wednesday, Jan 29 - More of the above. If I receive any new info from gramp by then I will divulge it. Thursday, Jan 30 - Pictures get scanned by a high quality Epson scanner at the highest resolution. We then attempt to enlarge and "clean up" the copies to gather more detail and clearly identify the key figures. I will then put a gun to my friends head and demand he erase the digital copy from his hardrive/recycle bin immediately, or face death. :mad: Friday, Jan 31 - At this point I should be able to post one that you all can see. I will post hopefully an enlarged and enhanced copy as well as a scan of the original size to see if anyone can identify the camera or if they are photos of photos, etc. Also maybe somebody with a keen eye and a good deal of knowledge will be able to identify possible time periods and locations (doubtful). I will post a new agenda after I have fulfilled this one. . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 I think I have at least one of Joseph Goebbels and at least one of Heimrich Himmler as well, but this is yet to be verified. I'm just looking at internet photos of these people and comparing them to my memory of what pictures I looked at. In my pictures they appear slightly younger I think. So don't hold me to this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdavis Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: I do know that he was in Europe until 46' though, and from 42-43 he was in Munich.Sorry Goodale, your grandad was not in the Battle of the Bulge but also in Munich from 42-43. If he was captured in North Africa and made a POW, I suppose it's feasible he could have been in Munich at that time, but then he wouldn't have been in the Battle of the Bulge. I would suggest looking up some records and doing some independent research. You'd be surprised how hard it is to remember that far back, especially dates and names of places. You asked how to tell if these prints are copywork: unfortunately, without the negatives, it would be difficult to say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Please explain, I suck at history in terms of dates of battles and stuff. when was the Battle of the Bulge? He definitely seemed certain he was there, and his wife said so too. If anything it's my moronic interpretation of what he said. help me!! (or else :mad: ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 MasterGoodale, I wish you all good luck and the best for your family, especially your grandfather, as I have the greatest respect for veterans of that era. I must say I'm quite curious to see how all of this turns out. Sixty years is a lot of memories to recall, and I suppose that some things can get a bit garbled over time. Hell, I'm only 54 and sometimes I get stuff a bit mixed up about the distant past! In any event, I trust that you and he are doing the best that you can to piece together this interesting peek back into history. In your position, I'd do my darnest to never let on to the old gentleman that there were any inconsistancies in his story...let him enjoy his memories and not have to deal with the "doubts" of others. He deserves respect. And you're lucky to have him. Good luck and, whatever else happens, spend quality time with your grandfather and show him how much he means to you, because that's what counts in the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: True, it most likely wasn't Aushwitz I don't really remember which one he said. I'll find out. I do know that he was in Europe until 46' though, and from 42-43 he was in Munich. I remember him saying how he was told he would come home after two years and "I never made it back until 1946!" he said.This makes no sense to me at all... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: Please explain, I suck at history in terms of dates of battles and stuff. when was the Battle of the Bulge? He definitely seemed certain he was there, and his wife said so too. If anything it's my moronic interpretation of what he said. help me!! (or else :mad: ) MG -- The Normandy invasion was June 1944. The Battle of the Bulge was approximately December 16, 1944 to January 25, 1945. It's very possible that he was just having trouble with dates -- could've been at BotB and then in Munich later as Germany fell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: Please explain, I suck at history in terms of dates of battles and stuff. when was the Battle of the Bulge? He definitely seemed certain he was there, and his wife said so too. If anything it's my moronic interpretation of what he said. help me!! (or else :mad: ) Bulge started in December of '44 and ended in January '45. There were no US troops in continental Europe in '42 and they did not land in Sicily until July of '43. But even then, they didnot leave Italy, so there is no way a US soldier who is not a spy or POW would be in Münich in '42 or '43. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Yeah but I can't seem to find any real good ones close up to compare to. Why doesn't aht make sense? By what he said, he was in Munich from 42-43 and probably moved around some, then was finally able to go home sometime in 46, probably early in the year I don't know. And why couldn't he have been in the BOTB? It took place in 44, while he was still in Europe. He was an artillery gunner (155 MM I think, called them "Long Toms") I will clarify this all in the end, believe me. And when I do it's probably going to make for an interesting story, and hopefully all of our questions will be answered. If he would just check his damn email!! :mad: :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Ok, I see. I guess I just did a horrible job at listening and gathering info. If it turns out he was a POW it will be quite a funny surprise (or a spy!! ). I can just see old gramps slithering around with a tiny camera in the shadows. Anyway, likie I said I will get to the bottom of this and I appreciate your help, the god awful fanatics that you are :eek: . hehehehehee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 I just looked at a map of Germany. I didn't realize how far south Munich was! wow, interesting. I was stationed in Baumholder for 2 years from 90-92 in the Army as a medic, but I can't find it on the freakin' map! I spent a few months at Stuttgart with the infantry guarding the post against possible terrorism because of Desert Storm. This whole war fascinates me, and this whole incident has inspired me to learn more about the War. I might have to smack old gramps around to jog his memory . . .just kidding 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: Why doesn't aht make sense? By what he said, he was in Munich from 42-43 and probably moved around some, then was finally able to go home sometime in 46, probably early in the year I don't know. I would imagine it to be hard for an American to move around Germany in '42 or '43. Especially in Münich, the first home base of the Nazi party. And why couldn't he have been in the BOTB? It took place in 44, while he was still in Europe. He was an artillery gunner (155 MM I think, called them "Long Toms")I don't think that I said he couldn't have been in the Bulge. I just don't see how he was in Münich in '42 or '43 AND then in the Bulge. I am sure stranger things have happened. I think your Grossvatter must have his dates mixed up pretty bad. Which is understandable. But he could not have reasonably been in Münich prior to 1945 if he was manning an artillery piece for the US Army. There is just no way. He must have found the camera sometime in the spring of '45 or there-after. I think Münich was occupied by American troops just before Hitler killed himself, which was in later April of '45. I will clarify this all in the end, believe me. And when I do it's probably going to make for an interesting story, and hopefully all of our questions will be answered. If he would just check his damn email!! :mad: :mad: Something is fishy. Try and look up his service records or something. Or find his unit name and post it here and we can probably figure out where he was and when. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: (or a spy!! ). I can just see old gramps slithering around with a tiny camera in the shadows. If he was a spy in '42 or '43, then I doubt he would be manning an arty piece during the Bulge a couple years later. experienced spies are hard to come by, I don't think they would use them to work artillery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunfat Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 If you want me to retouch the photos, let me know, you will need PhotoShop 7.0's healing brush to remove many of the imperfections in a typical old photo. I have a fair amount of experience with this kind of stuff, from scanning my grandad's WW1 pics. Basically, don't even bother trying this project unless you have PS7, I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but its essential. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 LOL Das Reich! That's funny but a good idea. I will get his unit and give you guys his name so you can help me understand this. It cracks me up how you are so suspicious I think you are part right though. Either he had his dates mixed up or he said he arrived in Europe in 42/43, then found the camera at the end of the war. I agree with what you say about the artillery not being near Munich, that makes sense to me. But also, you mentioned that Munich was the first home of the Nazis, and 50% of these pictures are of nazis and other axis leaders, mixed in with what appears to my highly untrained eye to be insignificant buildings and alley ways, and sometimes groups of people talking from a distance that you can't identify. So the camera was most likely found in Munich like he said. The rest remains to be known. . . :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 This is a stretch, but could MG's grandfather have been an American civilian in Munich when Germany declared war on the US? He spends a couple of months getting his affairs in order before leaving Germany (making it 1942 now), returning to the US where he joins the army in time to make it to the Battle of the Bulge. I haven't a clue what happened to US citizens in Germany and Japan when war was declared, so I'm prepared to have many holes shot in this theory. Commence firing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by Das Reich: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MasterGoodale: (or a spy!! ). I can just see old gramps slithering around with a tiny camera in the shadows. If he was a spy in '42 or '43, then I doubt he would be manning an arty piece during the Bulge a couple years later. experienced spies are hard to come by, I don't think they would use them to work artillery. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: LOL Das Reich! That's funny but a good idea. I will get his unit and give you guys his name so you can help me understand this. It cracks me up how you are so suspicious I think you are part right though. Either he had his dates mixed up or he said he arrived in Europe in 42/43, then found the camera at the end of the war. I agree with what you say about the artillery not being near Munich, that makes sense to me. But also, you mentioned that Munich was the first home of the Nazis, and 50% of these pictures are of nazis and other axis leaders, mixed in with what appears to my highly untrained eye to be insignificant buildings and alley ways, and sometimes groups of people talking from a distance that you can't identify. So the camera was most likely found in Munich like he said. The rest remains to be known. . . :cool: well, when I said that "something is fishy" I did not mean to imply that I was suspicious that you are not telling the truth. What I meant was, there is obviously something in your der Grossvaters story or your understanding or memory of what your Grossvater (I just started German this semester so I try to use words I know as much as possible) said. Maybe a little of both. Next time you see der Grossvater, explain to him your interest in his past. And that you would like to learn as much from him as possible. My Grossvater died when I was 12, so I never learned anything directly from him of his experience in the service during WW2. My dad is sketchy on the details. But I do know he served in the 1st Division. In fact, for Christmas mein Vater gave me mein Grossvaters divisional ring. Its gold and has two eagles on either side. The face has the "1" logo and says "TUNISIA SICILY, GERMANY" to the top of the "1" and "THE BULGE" below the "1" It was the best gift I have ever been given. I had never seen it before. But was pleased to get it. Has anyone ever seen one of these or know anything about them? I have searched the net some, but not too much. IU found the 1st Infantry Divisions website and I am going to post something on that forum. But anyways, next time you talk to your Groosvater, make sure you bring a tape recorder and ask him if you can tape the conversation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Das Reich: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MasterGoodale: (or a spy!! ). I can just see old gramps slithering around with a tiny camera in the shadows. If he was a spy in '42 or '43, then I doubt he would be manning an arty piece during the Bulge a couple years later. experienced spies are hard to come by, I don't think they would use them to work artillery. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Goodale, I see we have a common opponent in Hortlund. I have time for another PBEM if you are interested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Dachau is about 25 minutes outside of Munich. That could account for the recollection of the concentration camp. Posted by Yunfat: "don't even bother trying this project unless you have PS7, I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but its essential." Sorry, but this is hogwash. Don't Photoshop them. Do you want people questioning factual elements about the pictures? I would rather see a crack in a photograph than a badly(and I mean even by the best Photoshop Guru) retouched one. Frankly, I wouldn't be as paranoid about the copyright as some are suggesting. I deal with my own pictures in the public domain every day, and have yet to see a rampant abuse. It comes down to your choice-would you rather publish a book of these pictures (a realistic proposal), or do you wish to show them on a forum such as the internet, where people could use them for whatever purpose (some good and some nefarious)they choose. [ January 28, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: benpark ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Originally posted by benpark: Dachau is about 25 minutes outside of Munich. That could account for the recollection of the concentration camp. Yeap. That was one of the worst, too... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Ask him for his discharge papers. It should list the unit he was with (in most cases). I believe Munich fell to the 45th Infantry Division on 30 April 1945. The Division had 4 artillery batteries, 3 105s and 1 155. The 155 battery would have been 189th Field Artillery Battalion. Was this the unit your grandad was in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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