Krautman Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 A Fighter/Bomber can be a real pain in the ass, as i found out lately. In a recent QB defending against the Russians, an enemy IL-2 was responsible for most of my casualties and took out three (!) AT guns and a HMG (hidden in woods). Since then, I try to get at least one or two light AA gun per battle. That, however, doesn't seem enough to keep the bombs away. On one hand, i want a reliable AA defense, on the other hand, i don't want to spend many precious points on AA guns. In your experience, what AA support would you consider sufficient for a, say 1000 or 1500 pt. QB? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Trucks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopard_2 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Hoping your opponent gets hit by friendly fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Bad weather 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by Redwolf: Trucks. That is the best suggestion yet. If you don't have trucks at your disposal, go for 37mm or quad 20mm flaks. They're relatively easy to haul and also useful in anti-infantry duty. The 37mm piece will also blow holes to light armored vehicles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta1 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 If your being harrassed by IL-2s go for the 37mm. The IL-2 is a pretty tough customer - its pretty heavily armoured (for a plane) and 20mm flak is often not up to the job. And as bone_vulture said it eats light armor alive 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiavarm Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by Redwolf: Trucks. Trucks? Are they a cheap distraction to keep the Aircraft from targeting valuable assets? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by chiavarm: Trucks? Are they a cheap distraction to keep the Aircraft from targeting valuable assets? :confused: They're a bomb magnet. Rather that truck than your Tiger, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiavarm Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Clever! I like it. Would that be considered "gamey?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krautman Posted February 18, 2005 Author Share Posted February 18, 2005 Thanks for the answers. The idea with the trucks never occured to me... sounds good though; it might be useful, yet not really satisfying. I want to blow up these damn birds, not just distract them! And, in a way, truck "AA Defense" is somehow like truck "recon", isn't it? About the 37mm FlaK- will one be enough to keep an IL-2 away from me? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by Krautman: And, in a way, truck "AA Defense" is somehow like truck "recon", isn't it?Well, a truck suicide run yo be more exact. Can be considered gamey, especially when you know that the opponent will use air power. Originally posted by Krautman: About the 37mm FlaK- will one be enough to keep an IL-2 away from me? I wouldn't count on it. I'd say go for 2-3 flaks if you want guaranteed results. One flak will likely drop or scare away the bird eventually, but not before the damn plane has already peppered most of its munitions on your units. Especially if it's a Shturmovik. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 For the Russian side the only way to go is the quad .50 cal halftrack. Not much of a selection for the Russians, but on the plus side these are brutally effective. The German equivalent is the quad 20. The bigger guns like the 37mm flak (and the .50 cal / 37mm AA halftrack in CMAK) have more punch but they're got a slower rotation. I've seen more that one straffing fighter outpace a 37mm gun's rotation as it tries to track it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigrii Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 The thread title is a bit of an oxymoron. Just get as many flaks of as much caliber as possible without shrinking the size of your force too much. Then there are some things you can do to distract them, like truck bait. AA guns are generally better then AA vehicles of equal firepower because they're hidden and harder for the plane or ground units to kill. Is it just me or can planes easily spot units in woods? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Originally posted by Tigrii: Is it just me or can planes easily spot units in woods? Appears so. Although if the unit is camouflaged (haven't moved, fired, non-ME), it's usually quite invisible to hostile planes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achtung Baby Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I found when using trenches in woods or pines terrain, that AT Guns or Infantry on hide were usually always spotted by aircraft. However when using foxholes for the same assets on hide they never seemed to be spotted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Several 20mm armed recce cars and HTs are AA capable - they can help out sometimes. Both by firing and offering targets. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Originally posted by Joachim: Several 20mm armed recce cars and HTs are AA capable - they can help out sometimes.Are German armored cars truly AA capable? Maybe the open-topped ones? I have a hard time picturing a closed turret vehicle aiming at aircrafts... The flexible MG's the halftracks carry aren't the most potent AA weapons available, except the late war 251/21; the MG151 that it carries makes it possibly even more deadly against infantry and air targets than the Allied M-17. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon988 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Just buy lots of AA guns. They may not seem effective, but they are. Recently I saw my AA guns down four Russian planes in one battle. First time I've ever seen them have any effect. The manual says that whenever a plane goes down you're supposed to hear it or seem some flash or whatnot. I've had Combat Mission since '02 and I don't recall ever seeing that. Has anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBaron Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joachim: Several 20mm armed recce cars and HTs are AA capable - they can help out sometimes.Are German armored cars truly AA capable? Maybe the open-topped ones? I have a hard time picturing a closed turret vehicle aiming at aircrafts... The flexible MG's the halftracks carry aren't the most potent AA weapons available, except the late war 251/21; the MG151 that it carries makes it possibly even more deadly against infantry and air targets than the Allied M-17. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by DBaron: I seem to recall seeing PSW 222's shooting at enemy planes before. Maybe it was just my imagination though. Well, if you ever witness this behavior again, take a screenshot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Some (not all) German 20mm gun armoured cars are definitely firing at aircraft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krautman Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 I think in CMBB it takes a "flexible" MG mount to be able to fight planes, not a "coaxial" or "forward". The german PSW's "Hängelafette" (~free-hanging mount?) might enable to fight air targets with the 20mm cannon, but i'm not sure whether this is represented in CM. iirc I've seen a WWII photo showing a PSW 222 being refueled, its cannon pointing straight up into the sky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.cassidy Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 In my experience, I've found that towed light AA are the best compromise: cheap, stealthy and effective at warding off planes and in engaging enemy softies at long range. The russian 25mm comes with a huge ammo count (100, HE only), but enough to punch holes in halftracks. The german 20mm is a bit more versatile with its HE/AP mix. In a 1250/1500 pts game, 3 green 20mm/25mm and a green jeep (if I should need to move them later) are my usual purchase. I've had good results with them against vanilla planes, but against Sturmoviks having a 37mm wouldn't be bad! Cheers, Cassidy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krautman Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 Thanks cassidy, finally someone answered the original question! Will be appreciated. BTW, i now know what "vanilla" means (besides talking about spices; e.g. saying "vanilla german rifle infantry"), but where does this term come from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 A little CMBB test showed following (I probably missed some vehicles): PSW 222, PSW 222 (late) and PSW 234/1 armoured cars are firing at air targets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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