jcosta Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Hello, Forgive for me some language mistakes. My written english needs some practice. I am an absolute fan of strategic games - starting by chess, offcourse. When it cames to "electronic" options, CM is, by far, the best game in the market, and a quite respectable conversion of a classic like "Panzer Leader". But I feel somewhat disapointed with the performance of AI, specially when attacking. One question: I feel that the AI attacking performance changes in some scenarios. Am I right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 As I understand it, given the same scenario, the AI will never attack in the same way twice. AI in most games is scripted, but due to the open nature of CM, it can't be, so it runs on a set of randomly varying rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 jcosta, for sure the AI is heavily flawed on attack. It typically takes a linear path directly to the flag and does not use many tactics. Most people do not have scenarios where the AI attacks. for a greater (and very artificial) challenge try giving AI more forces. The AI is pretty good on defense as long as the scenario designer gives the AI valuable positions first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 You can also give the AI experience bonuses to help it out as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Bolt Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 If you want to play a little defense, try a human opponent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 The AI really benefits from careful scenario design. An experienced player will probably know the general route an attacking AI will take. If the scenario designer drops a reinforcement marker someplace else (attack on a flank for instance) the game suddenly bcomes more of a challenge. I've suggested this before. Another way to 'improve the AI' is to limit your own options. I bet most everyone (including me) floats above the map from elevation level three or higher with red and blue bases turned on, and flags permanently in full view. If you want the game to be a LOT more challenging turn off the flags after iinitial startup, stay as much as you can at level 2 or lower, and never move the camera past your own front lines. Warfighting against the AI becomes a LOT more challenging (and stressful) this way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simovitch Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 jcosta, Try my scenario "HSG B Fighting Withdrawal" available at the Scenario Depot. Play as Americans and I think you will see the attacking AI give you a run for your money. No AI Bonuses needed . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simovitch Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 oops, wrong forum. "HSG B Fighting Withdrawal" is a CMAK scenario. pardon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcosta Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by flamingknives: As I understand it, given the same scenario, the AI will never attack in the same way twice. AI in most games is scripted, but due to the open nature of CM, it can't be, so it runs on a set of randomly varying rules. Thank you for your answer. But what I tried to say was that the AI performance changes from scenario to scenario. Sometimes, speccialy whith tank manoeuver, the AI gets - my appologies to the game authors - "dumb". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcosta Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by securityguard: jcosta, for sure the AI is heavily flawed on attack. It typically takes a linear path directly to the flag and does not use many tactics. Most people do not have scenarios where the AI attacks. for a greater (and very artificial) challenge try giving AI more forces. The AI is pretty good on defense as long as the scenario designer gives the AI valuable positions first. Thank you securityguard. I´ts an option. But as you say, artificial and not satisfatory at all. More troops or bonus experience doesn't add the "spice" a good oponent brings and offcourse there the possibility of having human adversaries. The bottom line is that I expected more of CM given the general good quality of the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcosta Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: The AI really benefits from careful scenario design. An experienced player will probably know the general route an attacking AI will take. If the scenario designer drops a reinforcement marker someplace else (attack on a flank for instance) the game suddenly bcomes more of a challenge. I've suggested this before. Another way to 'improve the AI' is to limit your own options. I bet most everyone (including me) floats above the map from elevation level three or higher with red and blue bases turned on, and flags permanently in full view. If you want the game to be a LOT more challenging turn off the flags after iinitial startup, stay as much as you can at level 2 or lower, and never move the camera past your own front lines. Warfighting against the AI becomes a LOT more challenging (and stressful) this way. Thank you. Combat can become really harder like that. But at the cost of loose some perspective... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzTwt Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by simovitch: jcosta, Try my scenario "HSG B Fighting Withdrawal" available at the Scenario Depot. Play as Americans and I think you will see the attacking AI give you a run for your money. No AI Bonuses needed . You speak the truth. A cracking good scenario, with a belter of a map to boot. Not impossible to win, but a real good challenge played 'fresh from the box'. Max kudos to Simovitch for this baby. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embark Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Well I usually can find opponents at all hours of the day thanks to the worldwide appeal these games offer. So I don't often play againt the AI all that much. But if and when I do, I typically give them the defending side and I attack. I cannot say that the AI is a dissappointment in this game given the complexity of it and the budget that the battlefront guys had to work with and the niche market these games appeal to. All in all I would say they did an excellent job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 jcosta, I think that the AI does a fair job representing the Soviet forces. Since their offensive doctrine was more regimented than the German one it portrays it closer. Most players want to take the German side so that works pretty well for CMBB. IMHO. It is more of a challenge for the designer to make a scenario where the AI will attack well. You might try my HSG KC Lt. Oberloskamp on the Scenario Depot. It has been getting very good reviews for play vs the AI. Not all scenarios are bad if they have an AI attacker but they are harder to make. Good Hunting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwdjohn Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 The Ai is (for a medicore player such as meslef) DAMNED good on defense. It is fun to slaughter AI on offense, but I have one question. Why is the AI so horrible with infantry, but vs. tanks the AI is AWESOME. Or maybe i just dunno how to use tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcosta Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by Panther Commander: jcosta, I think that the AI does a fair job representing the Soviet forces. Since their offensive doctrine was more regimented than the German one it portrays it closer. Most players want to take the German side so that works pretty well for CMBB. IMHO. It is more of a challenge for the designer to make a scenario where the AI will attack well. You might try my HSG KC Lt. Oberloskamp on the Scenario Depot. It has been getting very good reviews for play vs the AI. Not all scenarios are bad if they have an AI attacker but they are harder to make. Good Hunting. Thank your answer and suggestion, PC. I think I can understand the reasons why the conception of an attacking scenario is more complex. But I tend to disagree with in what concerns Soviet AI attacking skills, speccialy concerning the use of vehicules. Usualyy they tend to get quite jammed. But than it's peraps the best that can be done. Anyway CM is a great game, maybe even the best computer strategy game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcosta Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Originally posted by throwdjohn: The Ai is (for a medicore player such as meslef) DAMNED good on defense. It is fun to slaughter AI on offense, but I have one question. Why is the AI so horrible with infantry, but vs. tanks the AI is AWESOME. Or maybe i just dunno how to use tanks. Hy TD There is always "the" right way of solving a scenario. You just have to analise it several times and understand the AI patterns. Try to be more cautios with your thanks. They're tough but far from indestructible. Send "scouts", use terrain protections, avoid merging them alone with enemy infantry... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwdjohn Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 jcosta, I know these things, really I do. I usually get bored and antsy, then use my tanks rashly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leopard_2 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: I bet most everyone (including me) floats above the map from elevation level three or higher......and lost my first three encounters with a human opponent who had no experience with strategy games but looked at the terrain at level 1-2 always - seeing the terrain possibilities much better than I did. :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 One of the first things I do when starting a game is to go all over the map at levels 1 and 2, occasionally popping up to a higher level to orient myself. This gives me a much better sense of LOS and cover. If I am attacking, I can find better lines of advance that way. If I am defending, I can better gauge which way the attack is likely to come and distribute my defense accordingly. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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