Moving in snow - ridiculous

[Michael Dorosh]

Don't laugh, Lars, it already snowed here this week! It has mostly melted though.

[Gyrene]

[Due to the passing of Mr. Johnny Cash, Mike Ness, frontman of Social Distortion will take the mike]

"I fell into a burning ring of fire..."

"...down, down, down, and the flames they went higher..."

"and it burns, burns, burns...The ring of fire..."

"...The ring of fire..."

Gyrene

[Jim Boggs]

I'm from Florida, so I have only theoretical definitions to work with regarding Snow.

From what I have read here, it would seem that pouring CAS on snow will make it highly combustible.

W :eek: W!

Thanks Grogs!!!

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I guess we are at the disadvantage because cabron is, ultimately, a coward who hasn't revealed anything about himself that we could use should we be childish enough to want to retaliate in kind.

But really, why bother?

Indeed. But one last point, Michael, before this thread (hopefully) reverts to discussion of the problems with snow movement in CM.

The five people that Cabron directed almost all his venom and abuse towards were yourself, Emrys, Berli, Andreas and JonS (Well, he also abused Goanna a bit, but that's hard to resist and completely understandable.) After his initial attack on me, for expample, he pretty much ignored me.

It is worth noting that these are all people who've been posting in 'his', as he puts it, CAS thread. And they are all people who've refuted or not gone along with claims he's made there, and who've increasingly had to try and pin him down on exactly what his point is.

I think that this round of abuse and unseemly whinging was simply that debate 'continued by other means'. Knowing full well that he'd look like an utter ass and cry baby if he'd descended into this sort of behaviour there, he chose to do it in a different thread. I don't post in the CAS thread, so a quick shot at me was all that was necessary before turning his attention to the people he really wanted to have a go at.

So, in order to keep 'his' thread looking like a place of enlightened discussion and to keep his own image pure, he went out and found the people he's been gritting his teeth about and attacked them somewhere else, over absolutely nothing.

Simply a warning to others who might still want to 'discuss' with him. If you're not agreeing with him, he may be courteous to your face for a while, but he's put you on a list. He hasn't any respect for other posters unless they support him, and his own emotional problems and lack of maturity will move him to release that anger at you the first opportunity he gets.

I believe him to be indeed a troll, but more significantly he's a bitter, angry little man who should probably get some counseling.

[ September 19, 2003, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Seanachai ]

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

So, what your saying is that, other than being a homorless mook, he has something in commen with the Pengers?

You might say that he represents the dark side of Peng.

(Ye gods!)

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

Time will settle all our hash, eh?

Joyful news that. Time, as they say, is the great leveler.

Michael

[Cabron66]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

Michael, before this thread (hopefully) reverts to discussion of the problems with snow movement in CM.

Well, as long as this guy gets to make "last points" which are little more than insults, then I will continue to do the same.

Allow me to explain the source of my anger. My initial attempts at a discussion of CM were met with ridicule and a total rejection of my ideas due to a lack of documentation. Among those who attacked my words were those same people who are most effected by this thread.

If anyone cares to look at my past contributions to this forum (easy to do since there aren't many of them) they will find I was nothing more than courteous and well-spoken until faced with abusive behaviour. In particular the initial response of JonS in "Objects still Missing from CM". I defended myself in that thread as I did here, but realizing that my not so eloquent attackers were at least partially correct I endeavoured to change my manner.

The result of my labour was the CAS thread which I believe is an excellent attempt at resolving the dispute. Once again, I would ask that my critics note the first response I received from JonS and the excessively long post from Bastables in which he simply cut and pasted a very lengthy section of a book without even an attempt at paraphrasing or making an argument. The "academics" in the audience will undoubtedly find this as repulsive as I did. Unfortunately, the proper research takes time and I have not been able to respond to everyone at the same rate as questions were made and points offered. I did attempt to respond in a well-educated manner to a few people who I initially felt made interesting statements and arguments.

However, when it became obvious that a FEW of these people were merely interested in fighting with me and wasting my time I decided it was time to ignore them.

Unfortunately, I found the comment made by Andreas in this forum and asked him for an explanation. After having my National Anthem twisted by Seanachai (I still do not know why he chose to get involved) I decided that my respect and attempts at civility were wasted.

[ September 19, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Cabron66 ]

[Cabron66]

Now, I do not understand the attitude taken by certain "educated" members of this forum. Even if it was "just a joke" do you seriously contend that it is acceptable behaviour? Was it not a matter between myself and Andreas? Am I allowed to disrespect everyone's national anthem, culture, creed, colour or religion?

If I disagree with Andreas I expect to deal with Andreas. I do not see how my potential dispute with one member of a forum entitles another to make fun of my National Anthem. Perhaps the academics in the crowd can explain their logic to me as I must admit I am in a loss to understand it.

Granted, if one were to simply pick up the thread and see my abusive comments without bothering to look at their origin then I can easily understand how they might be taken out of context, but let me ask one question.

If it were the Star-Spangled Banner or God Save the Queen (which I also sang as a child) would there not have been an angry response aimed at me? If I made disparaging comments aimed at the nationality of other members of this forum would I not be asked for an explanation?

You see, this is why the civilized world has overwhelmingly come out against this kind of behaviour. Why? Because comments of this kind inevitably lead to problems and misunderstandings. Even with the best intentions and most politely-phrased manner you are simply asking for trouble.

My beliefs are not likely to change on this subject. If you, as members of this virtual community, reject the standards of the civilized world and decide to live by your own rules, that is your right. However, don't be surprised when I, and others fail to understand your culture.

In fact, that's really the heart of the matter, isn't it. I did not respect your culture. I did not follow the norms of this little virtual society (or those imposed upon it by the almighty "grogs"). Well, for this I apologize, but I hardly think attacking my culture was the answer.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Past my bedtime, guys. Thanks for making a semi-dismal birthday into an <font size=22>EVENT.</font>

Well, it is one which will go down in history and I'm sure we here, we blesséd few, will remember always. BTW, just how old are you now? I didn't wish you a happy birthday because my own last happy birthday was when I turned 25. It's been all downhill since those far gone halcyon days. I assume you are now well past 25?

Michael

[Michael Dorosh]

Cabron, you're a Canadian! You don't HAVE any culture!

More importantly, you lack de sense-de-humo(u)r.

Seanachai and Michael Emrys tried quite eloquently to explain what transpired. It's over and done with. You don't get it, probably never will. Go with the flow, and if the comments on Canada bother you, ignore them. Go watch Canadian Bacon again and make notes on the mild-mannered Emily Post stuff we are supposed to be so famous for.

Than tell us about the last time you walked through the snow.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Cabron66:

If it were the Star-Spangled Banner or God Save the Queen (which I also sang as a child) would there not have been an angry response aimed at me?

Depends. If you could do it in an amusing way, we would laugh and think you were a jolly good fellow. There is much in American society to be satirized. Hell, we even satirize ourselves. But you seem incapable of humor, either originating it or appreciating it when it is before you. What are you, a capricorn or something?

Michael

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Past my bedtime, guys. Thanks for making a semi-dismal birthday into an <font size=22>EVENT.</font>

Well, it is one which will go down in history and I'm sure we here, we blesséd few, will remember always. BTW, just how old are you now? I didn't wish you a happy birthday because my own last happy birthday was when I turned 25. It's been all downhill since those far gone halcyon days. I assume you are now well past 25?

Michael </font>

[Abbott]

Originally posted by CabronSS:

( snip) Now, I do not understand...

Actually you were given the opportunity to be accepted among the people that would be read on this forum. However your pompous and child-like attitude has sunk you to the depths of the intolerant poster that you are. Way to touchy and full of yourself to be of benefit to the community in any other fashion then the humor your posts provide.

Well-educated posters from around the world contribute to make this place what it is. Many from the fine land of Canada that understand as almost all of us do, what you do not. Along with good solid information on the period we have chosen to be of interest there is room for humor. You may at this late date still have a chance, albeit a very small one to become a welcome member of this community. From reading your previous postings however I do not believe you are sharp enough to see it.

Of course with your mountain of indisputable knowledge on every subject you care to grace with your opinion why bother, eh? I would suggest that you consider a new login name of CabronSS to warn any and all of us of your personal belief of how to deal with a situation.

[Jim Boggs]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Here, culture is irrelevant - it is the content of your posts, and how you say it, that is important; indeed, almost all that matters. If there is such a thing as "pure" scholarly discussion, this place probably comes as close as possible. Until of course someone decides to make a huge issue about culture or somesuch. The pure debate here isn't allowed to happen too often, as we grow to know things about each other, but that too isn't undesireable, either. Certainly it brings a level of trust into the equation.

Sensitivity Grog!

[Boo Radley]

Originally posted by Jim Boggs:

Sensitivity Grog!

Arrrr, an' I could use a huge flaggon o' grog right about now, what with the wind a'blowin' athwart me mainsails and me mizzen bein' a rum soaked gollyflogger sufferin' from scroffula!

Arrr!

(Edited to repeat...Arrrr!)

[ September 19, 2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Boo Radley ]

[Cabron66]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Depends. If you could do it in an amusing way, we would laugh and think you were a jolly good fellow.

Now what if I tried to say something in a "jolly good way" and it were taken in another manner by someone else. Would that person not be within their rights to ask me for an explanation and even an apology.

What you do not understand, sir, is that misunderstandings are common and can usually be dealt with in a civilized manner, but some topics are simply "touchy" and frequently are the source of tension. Among them are race, creed, religion, nationality and gender. Is it your contention that I should be allowed to make any number of comments on these topics and only be judged on the merits of how "humouress" those comments might or might not be? Or rather, judged on how universally they are considered to be humouress? Perhaps you, as a man of some years, will be able to tell me the results of that mentality when exercised in the past. As a student of history you certainly will appreciate my arguments.

In this case I might or might not have overreacted (and in retrospect may be inclined to think I did), but I do not see how the reaction of Seanachai (whom you all so adamantly support) was either called for or appropriate. Do any of you really believe that the atmosphere you propose will not lead to misunderstandings and that those misunderstandings should be dealt with in the way you see here?

In the event that one member of the forum does not agree with another or does not see the humour in another's comments what do you propose to do, sir? Are you willing to provide the necessary monitoring and impartial judging required? Would you qualify this thread as an example of your methods?

I must admit, sir, I am still unable to grasp your argument.

[Cabron66]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

An assortment of comments clearly reflecting your academic nature.

Micheal, as long as you can hit the "post reply" button, so can I. As long as you can make sarcastic comments, so can I. As long as you persist in posting these kinds of things, I will as well. How long exactly do you plan on continuing? Is there an end in sight or should we simply agree to meet somewhere at high noon?

[Cabron66]

Originally posted by Abbott:

Actually you were given the opportunity to be accepted among the people that would be read on this forum...

This is exactly the kind of comment I am refering to. Who are you, sir, to accept me or not and why are you even making your ideas known? If you do not accept me then do not respond. Ignore me, as it were, as I have been told to do by others and to others. Otherwise I respectfully suggest you mind your own business.

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Cabron66:

Was it not a matter between myself and Andreas? Am I allowed to disrespect everyone's national anthem, culture, creed, colour or religion?

You have been extremely disrepectful and abusive along these very same lines. Apparently you believed that once a single, rather harmless joking remark from Andreas and a minor dig at you on my part had been made, you were excused you from even the pretext of being respectful.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

If I disagree with Andreas I expect to deal with Andreas.

And had you taken exception to Andreas and simply told him so, I would never have given it a thought. When, however, you chose to start calling him a moron, and flinging abuse, it was no longer an issue between you and Andreas. That was a public display of half-witted viciousness that caught my interest. At that point you were now involved in a disagreement between myself and your behaviour.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

I do not see how my potential dispute with one member of a forum entitles another to make fun of my National Anthem.

At this point I'm hard put to decide if you are simply this clueless, or if this is arrogant spin-doctoring.

I was not mocking the Canadian National Anthem. I was mocking you. Specifically, I was mocking your arrogant self-appointment as spokesman for all Canada. Hence the substitution of 'Cabron' and 'he' throughout the anthem. The use of the anthem was a 'device' by which I mocked your decision to wrap Canada around yourself and hurl abuse at others while pretending that your anger was simply 'righteous anger' over the affront to Canada, rather than a thinly veiled payback attack for a simmering resentment you already held against Andreas for reasons of your own.

I cannot imagine that your 'anguish' over the 'twisting' of the Canadian anthem was anything other than a similar opporotunity to direct anger against me for the remark I made in the 'Things Missing' thread in which I noted that you repeatedly made unsubstantiated claims, and then lashed out angrily at others when they weren't deferential enough to your statements.

Exactly, in fact, the sort of behaviour we have seen from you ever since.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

Granted, if one were to simply pick up the thread and see my abusive comments without bothering to look at their origin then I can easily understand how they might be taken out of context, but let me ask one question.

What has been most truly and totally 'out of context' throughout is the abuse and anger you've shown to other posters, your pointed refusal to acknowledge anything like an olive branch or even outright apology, and the freedom you apparently feel to meet anyone who angers you, however small the provocation, with vulgar abuse and insults.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

If it were the Star-Spangled Banner or God Save the Queen (which I also sang as a child) would there not have been an angry response aimed at me?

Possibly, but it would be from humourless, arrogant fools. What does that tell you about how I view your response? You are quite free to have a go at the Star Spangled Banner for my money. I'd be interested to see how well you'd do. But, frankly, given your almost pathological lack of a sense of humour, I'd doubt you'd make much of a job of it.

And, again, you still can't seem to come to grips with the fact that the Canadian National Anthem was done no damage whatsoever by my use of it, at least in my opinion. Indeed, by casting you in the role of 'all Canada', I did nothing more than what you'd already done.

I don't know, of course, how all the rest of Canada feels about you wrapping their flag around your genitalia while pounding the ground with a stick and hooting at your enemies.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

If I made disparaging comments aimed at the nationality of other members of this forum would I not be asked for an explanation?

You made a number of them. I'm sure your explanation will be that you shouldn't be held to the same level of conduct you expect of others, so we'll just take that as a given.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

You see, this is why the civilized world has overwhelmingly come out against this kind of behaviour.

You are from another world, then? That would explain a lot.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

My beliefs are not likely to change on this subject. If you, as members of this virtual community, reject the standards of the civilized world and decide to live by your own rules, that is your right. However, don't be surprised when I, and others fail to understand your culture.

The standards of the 'civilized world' do not entail flinging insults and abuse, which you, in fact, started, and with little or no provocation (other than the already mentioned anger you clearly held for people who weren't falling down to call you a god). You make no better a spokesman for the 'civilized world' than you do for Canada, so you might as well drop that pretense.

Originally posted by Cabron66:

In fact, that's really the heart of the matter, isn't it. I did not respect your culture. I did not follow the norms of this little virtual society (or those imposed upon it by the almighty "grogs"). Well, for this I apologize, but I hardly think attacking my culture was the answer.

The heart of the matter is you do not respect anything except yourself and your own opinions, and the only 'norms' you follow are dictated by yourself, and are selectively applied.

And what 'culture' was this? Canada? Or simply the 'culture' that is Cabron66? As far as attacking Canada, at least half your problem seems to be the belief that you are Canada. I notice a number of Canadians did not feel you spoke for them. Of course, you either ignored them or abused them. Specifically, you accused them of being 'Americans', and in one especially memorable tribute to your fitness to be a spokesman for 'civilized' behaviour, you accused them of performing oral sex on Uncle Sam.

I cannot understand why you are not representing Canada at the UN. You have a natural flair for peer-driven discussion.

[ September 19, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Seanachai ]

[Tero]

Now I know what White Death feels like.

[ September 19, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Tero ]

[Lars]

Originally posted by Tero:

Now I know what White Death feels like.

I'm starting to feel snowed under too...

Can we at least agree Canadian Snow is crap compared to good ol' Made in the USA Snow?

[Tero]

Originally posted by Lars:

Can we at least agree Canadian Snow is crap compared to good ol' Made in the USA Snow?

As the penultimate überFinn I can not accept any other proposition than: Canuck and US snow are both crap compared to the überFinnish snow.

[ September 19, 2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Tero ]

[Holien]

Originally posted by Cabron66:

Now, I do not understand the attitude taken by certain "educated" members of this forum. Even if it was "just a joke" do you seriously contend that it is acceptable behaviour? Was it not a matter between myself and Andreas? Am I allowed to disrespect everyone's national anthem, culture, creed, colour or religion?

If I disagree with Andreas I expect to deal with Andreas. I do not see how my potential dispute with one member of a forum entitles another to make fun of my National Anthem. Perhaps the academics in the crowd can explain their logic to me as I must admit I am in a loss to understand it.

Hi Cabron66,

In answer to your question.

If you disagree with Andreas on something which he felt was a sense of humour issue then there are a couple of ways to approach it.

1. E-mail him directly. This keeps it private and allows no-one from the community to express their views. By posting as you did, you in effect raised a very large flag saying come and get me. If you post here then everyone will have a view and some of those you will find not to your liking.

2. If you do decide to express your dislike of someones view try to do it in terms that do not make the situation worse. For example

Originally posted by Cabron66:

Yes, and unfortunately there's always a forum for you to be a moron in. I do commend you for one thing. Most people would be tempted to hide it, but you appear to be very comfortable with your own stupidity.

Andreas and others tried in a clumsy fashion to explain that it was a poor attempt at humour. By making a personal attack the gloves were off as you were picking on someone who is well respected here.

This is a community and when someone makes a personal attack people take offence and then wade in. Silly, but human nature.

So to say that it was just between you and Andreas is not true as you posted your views of him in front of everyone and not everyone agreed.

Funny that.

I am very certain that Andreas did not mean to disrespect your nationality and he knows as we all do that some people have different views. A simple off line e-mail to Andreas asking him what did you mean would have saved all this grief.

I could go on but all I am trying to do is give you an insight to what I think happened, of course I am only human and could be seeing it all wrong.

So lets hope some sense can be restored.

H

[Tero]

Originally posted by Holien:

Andreas and others tried in a clumsy fashion to explain that it was a poor attempt at humour.

At least here in Europe the German sense of humour is a joke in its own right and does not need explaining.

[Cabron66]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

"And had you taken exception to Andreas and simply told him so, I would never have given it a thought. When, however, you chose to start calling him a moron, and flinging abuse, it was no longer an issue between you and Andreas. That was a public display of half-witted viciousness that caught my interest. At that point you were now involved in a disagreement between myself and your behaviour."

I did take exception and did confront Andreas, but was told to go "hide in a cellar". Perhaps you can tell me how I was supposed to take that in a good way. Given his lack of respect for my views I felt I no longer was required to respect his. Your involvement, however, was not surprising, in fact it was expected. Your use of the Canadian Anthem as your choice of weapons was not expected as I made the mistake of assuming you to be a civilized man and a graduate of junior high school.

Perhaps you could be so kind as to show me the difference between your choice of tactics and those chosen by men who use someone's colour against them? I'm sure many of the members of the KKK would also have been extremely "funny guys". Man of them even were "academics".

No matter what, my dispute with Andreas was and remains a personal dispute between myself and Andreas which is independant of his nationality, race, religion or creed.

In the end, since you have made your position clear, I most respectfully suggest you mind your own business.

If you are incapable of minding your own business I respectfully suggest you go straight to hell.

[ September 19, 2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Cabron66 ]