Towing artillery

[K.A. Miles]

Can anyone share any thoughts on towing artillery? Both on the attack, as a mobile direct-fire artillery battery--- and also on the defense, as a mobile reserve. Whenever I have tried this, the transports are spotted and good-bye guns.

Also, why are light guns so "very slow"? I think the 37mm & 45mm AT gun should at least be given a "slow" speed. Of course, they should lose some ammo for moving, but these light guns should be able to move faster than a 105mm howitzer.

Thanks for your suggestions/explanations.

[Reanimator]

Well I tend to use guns quite a lot. A well placed gun in attack and defense can be critical, so you want to be vary careful. Try to have them in command, even while in transit, and to keep them from comming under fire. If you want sure-fire strategy for moving them while visable to the enemy I'm afraid I can't give one. The whole idea stinks, and you shouldn't try it. If you must, first take out the worst of the long range equipment: machine guns, other towed pieces, mortars, etc. Also try and use the best mover for the job going along the best path. Avoid rocky terrain, and if it is anything other than dry and grassy, use something with a track to move it.

But if you going to need a gun that is mobile and expected to be under fire, why don't you just take a tank? Thats why they invented them, you know.

As for your idea, think of this. The gun itself isn't the problem. If you notice, most of them are nice enough to come with wheels. Unfortunatly all that ammo that goes with that phallic hunk of metal arn't on wheels and have to be lugged around. "But reanimator, those smaller guns have smaller shells, and as such my main point still stands, stupid!" you say. I would kindly like to point out those smaller guns usually have one, two, or a combination of factors going against this reasoning. Either the smaller guns have more shells or less crew.

[K.A. Miles]

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself quite clear. I meant using towed artillery in a pre-designed scenario, not a QB.

You know what I mean, sometimes the scenario designer gets this idea that it would be great to have one or two towed guns in his "meeting engagement" type scenario. The trouble is, getting these guns to the fighting! Either I sacrifice a transport to tow the gun, or I send the gun on a game-long quest to the middle of the screen. Whether it's a huge 150mm gun, or 37mm AT, it will arrive in the last turn of the game to fire one inneffective round. IMHO, the light gun should move faster, and arrive sooner than the 150mm. I KNOW that I've seen pictures of German troops wheeling their 37mm AT guns down the road, and not seeming to stressed out about it either. Like I said in my original post, the gun should positively be subjected to ammo depletion upon moving.

[David I]

The trick is to move them as close as possible, with wheeled or tracked transport, WITHOUT exposing them to any fire. Then dismount them and then push them into possition. Hopefully to a spot not directly in the fight, but one that will deny the enemy from using that part of the field.

DavidI

[Bone_Vulture]

It all depends on whether your transports are trucks or halftracks. The latter can move in just about any terrain and are resilient against small arms fire, while the former will likely explode if it comes in contact with mud.

Either way, try moving the camera to ground level, and seek for rugged hilltops that offer a view to the crucial areas, namely the victory flags. Attempt to move your tow vehicles behind the cover of slopes and foliage, and let the towed gun move to the ideal position itself from behind the cover.

Hm, could you send a screenshot of the scenario? It'd be easier to give hints them.

[slysniper]

A trick I use is to back the gun into place leaving the Ht transport out of view but bringing the gun to a hill crest, A little smoke is needed to give cover as the gun is set up, when the smoke clears, you are ready to rock and roll, great tactic if setting it in a ambush location isnt going to benefit you.

[Tigrii]

You have to keep the gun out of enemy LOS while moving it. If you can't don't move it, because it will die and a useless gun that can be moved later is better than a dead gun. Find a site where you can drop it off out of sight and then push it a little ways into LOS. Smoke while its setting up helps, as slysniper said. Good locations are hills with cover, so you can drop off just behind the crest and then move up, or woods so that you can drop off with enough to stop LOS and then move up until you can see through.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by K.A. Miles:

Also, why are light guns so "very slow"? I think the 37mm & 45mm AT gun should at least be given a "slow" speed. Of course, they should lose some ammo for moving, but these light guns should be able to move faster than a 105mm howitzer.

They do. "Very slow" is relative. A light "very slow" gun is much faster than a heavy "very slow" gun.

Overall the times for gun movement, and hookup to a vehicle are much too high and don't support any historical account I have read.

Futhermore it is made much worse by the guns not being able to move backwards, which would actuall be much easier in reality than pushing them forward. If you are in front of your towing vehicle your gun has to turn 180 degrees before it even moves towards the vehicle. Combined with the slow turn rates this isn't realistic. Pretty bad in a game which usually only gives you 30 or 45 minutes to do everything.

[K.A. Miles]

Thanks everyone for your great responses. This issue doesn't involve a specific scenario I'm playing right now, my question was of a more broad tactical nature.

Thanks Redwolf, I didn't know that the light guns moved faster. I think your comments are correct. I especially dislike the fact that guns must rotate to move. Like you said, that's just not realistic.

Thanks again!

[MikeyD]

Remember, moving a gun also involves moving the ammo. The gun itself might theoretically be able to be rushed across a field at a sprint, but then the guys carting the shells have to follow. For mortars in CMAK, for instance, the Brit 3" mortar had a huge pile of ammo but only a 3 man crew. You can't even get the thing over a low wall!

The optimal way to transport a gun by truck is to do it at your leisure a loooong time before the enemy ever show his face. You drive to a spot, get unlimbered and set up, position your cover arcs, apply your hide commands, and then you wait. Either that or unlimber it into the middle of a smoke screen on a still day.

[David I]

The real pain in the butt comes when you are on the offense and the designer has generously given you a couple of AT guns that can't move on their own, and once dislimbered can't be relimbered. I am thinking, of course, of the 88 flak gun. I always get them blown up or the vehicle destroyed in a place where they can't see anything.

I'll keep trying though.

DavidI

[junk2drive]

Following David's post, sometimes designers give you setups that are out of the scope of CM.

Things that take an hour to setup in a 30 minute battle look nice in the tables and balance the points total but just add to the frustration.

Same with accurate maps with roads that don't work with CM vehicle movement.

[Vixen]

You could move them forward depending on terrain and get them set up out of sight, in hopes that you can lure the advancing enemy into thier sights.

[Dschugaschwili]

You can drive your guns to their destination using the reverse command. The gun is dropped off about 5m behind the vehicle, so you can save a little moving distance that way. If you have a nice ridge, you can even drop off the gun in a position overlooking the other side without showing the transport if you get the waypoints exactly right. Tricky, but I think it can be done.

Dschugaschwili

[K.A. Miles]

Dschugachwili, that's a great idea! I'll have to try that out. I never even thought of that, thanks!

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by K.A. Miles:

Dschugachwili, that's a great idea! I'll have to try that out. I never even thought of that, thanks!

You never thought about that? Shame on you.

I figured you had already exhausted that option. Try reversing to the corner of a forest tile; with a bit of aiming, you can land a non-mobile field gun on it, and secure a good field of fire.

[K.A. Miles]

Well, I'm rather new to playing against human players, and the AI doesn't seem to require such elaborate tactics.

Thanks, I'll try that out.

Reverse... who would have thought???