MikeyD Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 This is a request for bright ideas. We've got a pretty good feeling for the size and scope of an average CMBO game, and BFC has succeeded in giving CMBB its own noticeably different 'feel'. What do you think BFC could reasonably do to give CMAK a 'feel' all its own? What, in your mind, could best set CMAK apart from the others? Off the top of my head, I'd like to see the AI using scouts much more aggressively. When you've got a map that's just miles and miles of open terrain you should be seeing the AI sending out a good number of light armor to 'swan about' seeking contact with the enemy, and the main body visibly reacting to the intelligence they gather. Much less having the main body blindly blundering into the opponent. I'd imagine it could work much like a combination of 'seek hull down' and 'move to contact'. Scouts fast moving from cover to cover very quickly, covering much of the map in short order. Not engaging the enemy. This function would be fully in effect on huge maps and could be stepped-down with progressively smaller maps, not being used at all on the small ones. Comments/suggestions? [ May 12, 2003, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Better use of aerial recon and like you say, forward mobile units. Better use of weather and terrain. Longer battles (yes heresy) with a resupply system (simplified)that allows longer flowing fights. More build up of rear areas, the NA campaign had numerous incidents of logistic convoys and depot areas being hit by front line troops. Provide a few generic units to do those (a 'rear area ad hoc) unit would do with weak infantry skills and mainly rifles and pistols for weapons. As above more of the artillery systems up to corps level to be included in tactical combat. Some sort of aircraft counter for attacking on the ground. Airfield raids. Give designers that ability to select trucks and locations (tents, building, ammo storage points) to either burn, explode or "simmer" when hit and destroyed.-tom simulate fuel and ammo trucks etc. More realistic smoke (bigger plumes), delayed explosions of hit vehicles, creation of a destruction mod between knocked out and exploded tank/vehicle - the slowly smoking wreck. Effect of where the sun is-critical in the desert-trying to fire into the setting or rising sun was a great tactical disadvantage. Sand storms - ability to kick up during a battle or die down. Progress of time, ie from night to dawn to midday and the reverse, day light dusk to night. More dust and smoke from artillery and larger gun fire. Simulated para drops (randomization of appearance/location of dropped troops) and % of casualties based on enemy in the area and weather-terrain they land on ---thinking about Crete and Malta here... Creation of Extra heavy buildings and walls-to simulate the ruins encountered in Libya, Tunisia and Italy. More active naval gun fire support Better FOW - is it friend or foe? Ability to have AI run forces on your flanks or operating with you. (probably impossible as I understand the engine) Ability to but wrecks and abandon vehicles on the battle field Wrecker units, both sides used engineers to demolish damaged enemy vehicles to prevent repair-option for operations Allow purchase of counter-fire to reduce enemy use of arty Allow purchase of CAP to limit enemy use of aircraft Allow reinforcements (controlled by computer) into QBs. Tank gun misfires fifth skill for leaders Map reading - ability to go where they are directed - would effect ability to bring in indirect fire also. Ability to label certain units much more valuable in points for certain scenarios - ie protecting a divisional HQ, the command unit being worth a lot more than normal. Hidden victory flags agreement between players in IP/PBEm to continue a game beyond its normal ending (points are counted) but they are allowed to play out and see "what if". Well more to come but that should get you started. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelas Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 My vote would for slave wenches. oops, wrong game. Mike 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 French Foreign Legionnaires marching through a sandstorm to man a desert fort, then defending it to the last man against Arab bands. Inbetween fighting you can listen to your men explaining why they joined the Legion. Oops, wrong game... Well, how about mirages? Sunstruck commanders assaulting friendly units? Camel cavalry? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 well they could add in random attacks by Senussi raiders---they kinda might look like slaves wenches! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 So, would tank gun misfires be similar to a mg 'jam' putting the tank out of commission fo a couple turns? If this happens more than 1-2 times every few games that could turn out to be as annoying as 'gun hit' used to be! Aerial recon could very quickly turn an 'extreme FOW' into a 'No FOW' game, with the complaints to follow How would resupply work? the AI-controlled truck appears magically from off-map and drives up to your 88 position. If it survives the trip the gun suddenly has twice as many shells? sounds disturbingly like a gamey 'health crystal'. I'd vote for airfield raids, or more specifically the ability to place an 'attack here' marker for your aircraft at game setup, increasing (by 30%?) the chance that the plane may in fact attack there. Bigger smoke plumes... Hmmm, how high up can CM artwork actually ascend? Might run into game engine issues? progress of time effects? Hey, it's still a limited time duration game. I'm not sure if the difference between fighting at 3:15pm and 4:15 pm would be all that marked! Purchase of counter-fire batteries in the same way as we purchase AA guns to combat unseen aircraft. An interesting idea, but all the action would take place completely off-board. hidden victory flags. Ah, my pet idea. But I'll be surprised if it makes it into this engine (unless someone wants to mod the small victory flag knockout color! [ May 12, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 You can do it yourself, just make a cup of tea with condensed milk and 1 teaspoon of sand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88mm Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 More group-control, more group control, more group... ow well you get the idea My biggest complaint; lack of group-control...whaT? i cannot order a platoon of Pz to "wedge" , echelon left, right, column or line. stupid. Same for platoons, cannot order a forward recon formation, in line advance , etc. etc. stupid. The whole unit-control should be re-coded. Sure, you can selct a bunch of it, and let them run/walk whatever. but soon it becomes one big mess of men/vehicles whatever... Same as when being shelled and you're men are lying all around your HQ-unit should have a option; regroup. The micro-managment as it is now is way too time-consuming and isn't nessecairy. Control over units is fine, but when you have to tell your men to tie their shoes you're overdoing it Another issue; why aren't crack StugIII-b's firing to support my inf? Really, my men were under fire when advancing, the stugs were in position, closer! to the enemy then my solders and yet there was only one Stug who did something. the others were holding a nap :mad: And yes, they had a fine LOS needless to say, the game-engine isn't "crack" either... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 So, would tank gun misfires be similar to a mg 'jam' putting the tank out of commission fo a couple turns? If this happens more than 1-2 times every few games that could turn out to be as annoying as 'gun hit' used to be! if the mg can jam so can the tank and other guns-althought a broken firing pin can take a lot longer to fix Aerial recon could very quickly turn an 'extreme FOW' into a 'No FOW' game, with the complaints to follow It would be limited of course, plus it would tend to be 'unit' 'vehicles', artillery?' How would resupply work? the AI-controlled truck appears magically from off-map and drives up to your 88 position. If it survives the trip the gun suddenly has twice as many shells? sounds disturbingly like a gamey 'health crystal'. well we could do it like reality, in reality they did resupply - it was critical to resupply a unit that had attacked or it would be blown away by the counter-attack. "health crystals" Huh??? I'd vote for airfield raids, or more specifically the ability to place an 'attack here' marker for your aircraft at game setup, increasing (by 30%?) the chance that the plane may in fact attack there. oh yes target markers for prep planned airstrikes Bigger smoke plumes... Hmmm, how high up can CM artwork actually ascend? Might run into game engine issues? Pictures show the smoke from a diesel engine tank that goes up is about 3-4 time the volumne that is shown now. progress of time effects? Hey, it's still a limited time duration game. I'm not sure if the difference between fighting at 3:15pm and 4:15 pm would be all that marked! As I clearly stated Night to dawn to daylight - well within 45 minutes and the same for daylight dusk and night Purchase of counter-fire batteries in the same way as we purchase AA guns to combat unseen aircraft. An interesting idea, but all the action would take place completely off-board. yep but it allows the commander to influence the battlefield. hidden victory flags. Ah, my pet idea. But I'll be surprised if it makes it into this engine (unless someone wants to mod the small victory flag knockout color! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I'd like to see them expand multiplayer gaming to include 3 or more players (2v1, 2v2, 3v3) rather than just 2 players. Each player would have their own units to control, and FOW would hide friendly units controlled by another player on the same side. I am thinking of an operation where you have two commanders that are supposed to assault the enemy from opposite positions. In real life often friendly units were not in direct sight of each other, but could communicate through radio contact. Simulating that would bring in friendly fire situations, more realistic misidentification of units, and would be fun for two people to learn how to play together. PBEM games would take longer, but I think it would be worth it. Do you know if this as been considered before? [ May 12, 2003, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Cpl Dodge ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Include the 'Australian Beer Option'... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 C'mon guys, we're trying to think of something that has half a chance of actually making it into the game, not just wish lists. for instance, I'd like to see Brit tanks stop in mid-battle and the crews jump out to brew up a spot of tea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Murray Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I'd like to see the vehicle AI for SP's be able to indirectly target the enemy ( ie. bunkers, pillboxes, etc. ). From what I understand this isn't possible with CMBB. [ May 12, 2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Rob Murray ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammenwerfer Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 1- 0 to 30 Elevations (maybe 40)? 2- Camo'd Vehicles, similar to dug in option but vehicle is difficult to spot till it fires or moves. 3- Lock Camera angle [ May 12, 2003, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Flammenwerfer ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Someone said this already . . . but if you are looking for the feel of the dessert campaign I think that the shimmering heat wave on the horizon effect would be a nice touch! Maybe even DARKER shadows. (More contrast, if you take my meaning.) Gpig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Along that same line, I recall suggesting this awhile ago (to ridicule another game, if I recall) but if CMAK wants to give the idea of increased distance they could add a fog effect to bright clear days - only 5% fog or something, just enough to give the idea of shimmering hazy distance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Why isn't expanding multiplayer to more than 2 players a realistic option? Seems to me like that wouldnt be too hard of a change. You wouldnt be changing to basic engine, just adding options for another player (or two). Does nobody else think that would be really, really fun? To me, that one change would be better (and make the game more fun) than all the other suggested changes combined. [ May 12, 2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Cpl Dodge ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJaykey Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 CMBB is already an awesome game, but in the spirit of "there is always room for improvement:" Has anybody else besides me camped in the desert? "Night" battles should be quite a bit brighter, with better visibility, to simulate moonlight. If you want real murk you could select Night + overcast or fog. I'd like to see "Seek Hulldown" changed so that units move Fast to the hulldown position. I mean, they are looking for cover, right? Shouldn't they want to be exposed for the least amount of time? MikeyD: might this satisfy your desire for a "Fast Recon" order or somesuch? I'd like to see Shoot & Scoot tweaked so that units pause at the firing position long enough to fire a round, rather than paying the penalty for firing while in motion. And yes, get the AI to use these orders more! Also, change the "Cover Panic" SOP to something like what JasonC has suggested - in open desert terrain I can imagine ridiculous "Sneaks" of 100s of meters. (I'd like to see this change in CMBB 1.03, also.) Aerial recon could be encompassed by my previously stated desire for a pre-battle intelligence report. I don't think aerial recon would often be passed down to ground units within the time frame of the game....they didn't have real-time communications, did they? If in-game recon is to be included, I'd suggest handling it as text and/or audio intelligence bulletins, which would recreate the way commanders received recon IRL better than direct input into the spotting system. Rear echelon units would be great for certain scenarios, as would the big oily smoke plumes and delayed vehicle "brew ups" requested already. Roiling sandstorms, utilizing the new game's ability to portray dust clouds, might replace the "Fog" condition. Random dust devils for pure eye candy. 400mm naval arty fire missions, yeah!!! Modelling of the effect on spotting and gunnery of looking into the Sun would be great...and not just in the desert. Multiplayer would be awesome, but I think we've been told that will have to wait for CMX2. Likewise AI control of some friendly forces, and an IFF element in FOW, neither of which would make much sense w/o a multiplayer option. Returning to the command system, as I've said in other threads I'd like to be able to use "Pause" for fire orders. And have a slow rate of fire for support weapons, and perhaps arc or drag-box targeting for area fire, rather than area fire directed at a point. And of course harem girls. I'm told Captain Wacky already has a mod in the works... - Matt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 An intel map during setup. 2D with vague spotting reports. Dynamic lighting. (BTW Matt, I think the darkest I have ever seen barring a German Tree nursery at night, is the desert with no moon. I could barely see the ground I was walking on.) During noon turns crews could get out and cook eggs on the fenders of their tanks. Dust trails behind rounds. Vehicles, dead or alive, provide cover. Push through minefield breaching. Steadily degrading sight conditions as the sand and smoke of battle get thicker (affected by wind of course). Erupting volcanoes as a big what if for Sicily. Infantry can fire from within or on AFVs. Variable density mine fields. More engineer options (lay mines, clear wire, blow roadblock, prepare structures for demolition). Tweek the infantry routines. Infantry do not flee in terror from the first thing that fires at them. They keep pushing towards the objective until it is absolutly impossible for them to move any further. Casualties count not only those wounded but the men required to care for them. This presents the posibility of "eliminated" squads returning for subsequent battles. More detailed control over AI for scenario designers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Erupting volcanoes as a big what if for Sicily. Vesuvius had a big eruption in 1944, I demand it be modelled! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Erupting volcanoes as a big what if for Sicily. Vesuvius had a big eruption in 1944, I demand it be modelled! </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Nah, that was just a Sturmtiger misfiring. Or a row between Clarke and Alexander? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Better coordination between AI units. Very toughor even impossible to program on a tactical scale. But the AI should be able to decide after suffering losses that today isn't it's day and dig in, hide or run for it. Those squads that keep assaulting through open terrain without any support against whole lines of tanks & stuff is just silly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Simple - Incorporate BCR into the engine. Should take about 3 days of coding and 6 months of fun play testing. - Hobo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJaykey Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): BTW Matt, I think the darkest I have ever seen barring a German Tree nursery at night, is the desert with no moon. I could barely see the ground I was walking on.....Without a moon, but clear skies, I have walked long distances over rough desert terrain lit only by starlight, and neither stubbed a toe nor gotten lost [at least not too often ] And the light of a full moon is almost like daylight on the light desert terrain. But you're right too, of course: with overcast blocking moon and starlight it can be black as pitch. So I'd like to see Night+overcast simulate the kinds of conditions you're referring to, but allow the Night+clear setting to simulate bright moonlight, with its silvery light and black shadows. (And BTW, if you've sent me a turn and are waiting for a reply, know that I am not sitting on our PBEM game: I am posting from work, and the machine here doesn't have the oomph to run a large CMBB game.) - Matt [ May 12, 2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: SFJaykey ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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