JasonC Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Geez people, I can understand wanting to see a whole game but a little testbed like this? Fire one up yourself. It is not hard to make. I can give you the map I used if you like. But no, I didn't think you'd need saved files every turn or even every five, for one platoon advancing on a lone MG. Just try it. If you really can't get it to work I can do it again and save things. But I think if you haven't even tried it yet yourselves, you'll be surprised how do-able it is. The drill is simple. New orders every minute, not one long waypoint. The guy being shot at halts unless he's only at "alerted" or "ok". Advance is the move order used. 50-60m length. Hide at the end until you get close enough that you might see something - 150-200m. Make for any available cover. Don't bunch up. Halt anybody who "sneaks" under fire unless he is 10m from cover, then let him crawl to it. "Tiring" is ok, but if they reach "tired" halt and rest a minute. Similarly, "alerted" is OK, anything worse means halt for a minute, while somebody else advances to draw off the fire. Can that be too hard to attempt with only 5 units to manage? I don't see it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Some of us are too busy loosing real game to try out fake situations 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrializer Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Hey, JasonC, wanna try the Infantry-advances-across-open-terrain method in a real scenario ? Why not playtesting my latest operation, D-Day: Omaha Beach, the first 5h of the Invasion (CMAK !!)? Lots of open Space to cross, lot's of MG-42s fireing upon some helpless US boys This is the MOAO (Mother Of All Operations ) because this operation is not just large, it's really really very extra huge This operations lasts 20 battles, each 15 turns fixed. Map size: 4km x 2km. Total Allied points: 27.500, Axis points: 13.500. This might sound unplayable but most Axis points are fortifications and if the scenario plays out as intended many allied units will be destroyed at the beach/panic/taking cover/beeing pinned and unable to move..., so my hope is that not to many units have to be given orders every turn. This scenario tries to resemble the battle at Omaha beach, sector Charlie up to Easy Green, you are in command of the 116th RCT (Regimental Combat Team), tasked with clearing the beaches to allow the heavy equipment already on its way to safely land at Omaha beach. This map is as close to the real Omaha Beach 1944 as I could make it with CMAK, every hedgerow, every tree, field, buildingt is were it's supposed to be, the fortifications, firetrenches and weaponpits are set up as they were in June 1944 (using some original asault maps for Omaha beach were even single MG positions is marked). I was only limited by CMAKs restrictions of max. 1000 units per player so some minor inaccuracies were unavoidable There are some houserules for this scenario: Both Players: NO unit may be moved during the setup phases !!! These battles are supposed to take place continuously, so if you want a unit to go from A to B you have to actually move this unit across the battlefield instead of teleporting it to it's destination during the setup. Allied player: the invasion started 6.30 in the morning at low water but the tide began to rise and by 10.00 (battle 15) the beach was flooded up to the shingle. There are markings on the beach to show you were the tide is at a given battle and you are forbidden from moving units behind that line 'into the water'. All arriving reinforcements have to be setup along this line in a 20m deep corridor (similar to the battle1 setup zones) I'm looking for 1-3 playtesters who are willing to play the allied forces, contact me at stefan.rosendorf @ hamburg.de and I'll send you a playtest-version of the operation (CMAK needed!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 "Some of us are too busy loosing real game to try out fake situations :)" You fight as you train, if you aren't training maybe that's the porblem. Los 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonxa Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 If you have played CM more times than the number fingers on your hands this kind of situation must have come up before. Infantry platoon versus MG, wow. The thing I've had to learn is to be patient. Let the minutes pass and the fire pour in. I failed miserably in my experiments with mounted infantry attacks because once they jumped off the HT/carriers my brave men were cut down by not properly supressed enemy infantry. It works ok with a few minutes of supression fire and plenty of smoke though. A bit of a gamble/risk but fun when you pull it of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool breeze Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 OK i guess it was a silly request, but figured id be able to see what the proper advance looked like just as well from the test as the game you played earlyer but didn't save untill after advancing was over. With your second description i think i have a good enough Idea what it should look like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Industrializer: This is the MOAO (Mother Of All Operations ) because this operation is not just large, it's really really very extra huge This operations lasts 20 battles, each 15 turns fixed. Map size: 4km x 2km. Total Allied points: 27.500, Axis points: 13.500. No... way! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrializer Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Moon: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Industrializer: This is the MOAO (Mother Of All Operations ) because this operation is not just large, it's really really very extra huge This operations lasts 20 battles, each 15 turns fixed. Map size: 4km x 2km. Total Allied points: 27.500, Axis points: 13.500. No... way! :eek: </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 No "it" doesn't sound better now. And it is in the wrong thread, in the wrong forum. There is a scenario forum area. As for "fake" situations, every CM situation is fake. It is a game. I've already given full QB examples, I just wanted to demonstrate to SBS and those like him that what you do with your units is more important than the labels on them. If you don't need this demonstrated then you are free to go gaze at your navel. Cool Breeze, I don't consider it a silly request and I will do it if you find it helpful. I'm just surprised anyone would think it necessary or useful. I think that you might learn more by simply trying it out yourself first, than you would by looking at saved game files from me. If you try it a couple times and can't get it to work, post and tell us so and what happened. I'll try to give pointers, and if it helps will rerun a test saving every turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBS Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 "Case 4 it is a regular German MG42, the best HMG there is." Jason C finally caves in and admits that to quote myself "that the German Army has some very effective long range weapons." I WIN *tries not to gloat too much* Nice arguement JasonC but you finally defeated yourself!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Indeed, don't gloat. You didn't "win" anything - nobody ever disputed the 42's effectiveness. The question was which infantry tactics could counter it, and Jason showed you in his usual clear, though chilly, way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 "I Win" ???? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 12. Listening to Wagner in the basement in full uniform. Very dry troll. Just very dumb. Personally I go with the first, it is the most charitable. Well, if life gives you very dry troll, get elaborate essays out of it, useful to third parties (lol). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bonz Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Practiced the JasonC ‘infantry attack over open ground tactics’ drill. Me Vs AI in a 500 pt infantry attack across a virtually wide open 400 meters, going slightly up hill. The advance was into Axis forces of (2) MG 42 and (3) 50mm mortars and rifle squads hiding in scattered trees and woods with extreme FOW. The drill is simple: Frequent new orders. No long way points. Warriors being struck by bullets halt unless bullets only "alerted" or "ok". Move orders = Advance of 50-60m length. Hide at the end of Advance until ID range - 150-200m. Proceed to any available cover. Never bunch up squads. Halt forces that "sneak under fire" unless < 10m from cover, then let him crawl to cover. "Tiring" is ok, but if they reach "tired" halt and rest a minute. "Alerted" is OK, anything worse means halt for a minute, while somebody else advances to draw off the fire. Results for me: I won a victory in 20 moves! Never been able to accomplish this before. Thanks for the ‘drill’ advice JasonC. Cheers… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 ...sometimes... you have more infantry than there is cover; at least without bunching the infantry up... so that would be a case where it might be good to sneak a bunch of units right across the open.. as your units already in cover engage in firefights... i you have time... you can sneak across large areas of open ground... if your units become 'tired'... put a 40-second delay on them every couple of turns or so.... also.. if he can see you then you can see him... so you can invest in a couple of infantry guns... and push them into positions with good lines of sight ... having some kind of HE... especially 75mm or higher... really helps dispatch with MG nests more quickly... the one thing that makes an advance across large open areas is the delay factor.. if you bunch up and delay for too long in one spot.. you can really get hit with artillery.... one way to help avoid artillery is to keep units spaced north-south in addition to east-west... because the artillery sheathes in cm run east-west... so when you have a bunch of units all in tight along an east-west line... watch out... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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