Biltong's Campaign Rules - South 41 to 42

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Dr. Rosenrosen:

I just played my first game using Biltaid and I'm not convinced that this is the best method to proceed. I tried to enter my after action data and it prompted me with a series of questions about using my Favor. I ended my first battle with 50 favor and attempted to spend zero of it. However in the list of favor options (ski troops, night battle, etc.) it wasn't always clear which option resulted in no favor spent and what the alternatives were. Sometimes I even clicked on the X in the upper right of the dialog instead of clicking a choice that I didn't understand. By the time I finished the list of questions, I had somehow spent 10 favor.

The defaulted option is highlighted (on my version there is a little green square around the default value). Click on the default value and no favor is spent. Click on any other and you'll soend the amount BiltAid asks you: "Do you want to spend 10 pts (or else) to change .. blah blah.

Can't be easier, really

So I thought that the best way to learn the rules is to do a battle or two by hand so that I understand the automated system better. I still don't understand how to print the Parameters tab correctly. On the v2.2 rules spreadsheet, the Parameters tab prints out extremely small and unreadable.

Well, that's Excell. There is also available a PDF version of the rules.

The other tabs print fine. I assume I'm supposed to print out this sheet to use it. How can I change it so that it will print the correct size? I tried copying and pasting that tab into a new spreadsheet, but then it extends onto multiple pages very awkwardly. Anyone know how to correct this?

Any Excell user available?

Also, I'm wondering what automated system is best, if any. Should I continue using Biltaid, switch to the Auto_rules spreadsheet, or just do it by hand? Any tips?

Thanks,

Dr. Rosenrosen

My take is that Biltaid is quite handy in tracking the exp level and generate parameters. Sure, it is not updated to latest version of BCRs and nevr will be (unless of some parallel effort). In the beginning I was following BiltAid and the printed rules to check what difference in results I would have with the two methods.

Some issues are definitely not covered (yet?) like the Kiev battle but for that it is not difficult to go *manual* for a while and then *autopilot* subsequentely.

My advice: check for yourself what would be following the printed rules or the tool and see what you would get with both methods. Then stick with what suit you more.

[j0ker]

Quoted by the Good Doctor:

So I thought that the best way to learn the rules is to do a battle or two by hand so that I understand the automated system better. I'm wondering what automated system is best, if any. Should I continue using Biltaid, switch to the Auto_rules spreadsheet, or just do it by hand? Any tips?

In the beginning of playing BCR I was very tempted to wait for Biltaid to come out but I couldn't wait and went with the paperwork of doing it all by hand. I'm glad I did; it lets you become familiar with all the parameters first.

Truth be told, I never went over to Biltaid; I'm certain that it's a great timesaving device but there's something quaint about sitting at the desk going over paperwork after every battle... it's so... i dunno....so 20th century. Keeps you in the mood of being in a time where there were only carbon paper and mimeos (did they have mimeographs back then?)

And Biltong is right; after a few times the whole process between battles -- AAR, computing Favor, reassigning squad personnel, rolling up the next battle, adding new task force and deploying troops -- takes less than an hour now. Never thought I'd get the hang of it... but there you go (from a Type .

NEWS FROM THE FRONT: the CO replacement from Game 4 is now a regular, and all 3 tanks are now Vets as Battle 14 (ME) has resulted in a T.V. for der Kampfgruppe. Kiev is about a week away; we seem to be assaulting this afternoon in some sort of foggy foothills with a very small task force. We keep gaining momentum, however, and are looking forward to Kiev.

tschuss - j0ker

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by j0ker:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Quoted by the Good Doctor:

So I thought that the best way to learn the rules is to do a battle or two by hand so that I understand the automated system better. I'm wondering what automated system is best, if any. Should I continue using Biltaid, switch to the Auto_rules spreadsheet, or just do it by hand? Any tips?

Truth be told, I never went over to Biltaid; I'm certain that it's a great timesaving device [...]

And Biltong is right; after a few times the whole process between battles -- AAR, computing Favor, reassigning squad personnel, rolling up the next battle, adding new task force and deploying troops -- takes less than an hour now.

</font>

[j0ker]

Quoted by the commander:

It takes me no more than a couple of minutes to do what it takes you an hour

gee, i wouldn't be boasting about that [ba-dum-bump] but seriously: please read my post again. I'm talking about the entire process between battles. I don't think an hour is so long of a time to get all of that work done, which I now am [mostly] convinced is correct and i can SEE it on paper.

Actually, i'm not quite sure what your point is. I'm winning battles at my own pace under the same adverse conditions that i would have received had I started using Biltaid. Am i supposed to go faster? Should I be using the time-saving doohickies that others are producing for my benefit? Or are you just boasting that you're the 60-Second Man?

tschuss

j0ker

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

First of all, many thanks to those who have responded to my posts. I'm taking the results from my first game (generated by Biltaid) and trying to process things by hand. It's going well and I'm actually starting to get the hang of things.

Question about Favor and prisoners. The enemy surrendered and I have lots of prisoners (39). I also captured a handful during the course of the game. In the Prisoners section of the Favor sheet, it separates out the HQ units and the ** tells me that I should count HQ units as a team. (Thus, capturing a Company HQ gives me +4 points no matter how many casualties the HQ received.) For the non-HQ units should I count them as individual soldiers or as squads/teams like I do with HQs?

Here are two ways to score my prisoner favor:

A) I captured 39 guys, including 2 HQ units comprised of 8 men total. This leaves 31 enlisted prisoners. I therefore get 33 points favor (3 for my first enlisted prisoner and one for each additional). I get an extra 8 points favor because I captured 2 HQ units. Total prisoner favor = 41

I captured 39 guys. This breaks down to 12 squad/team/crew units and 2 HQ units. I get 14 points favor (3 for my first captured squad and 1 for each additional) plus 8 since I captured 2 HQ units. Total prisoner favor = 22

Please let me know which method is correct (or if both are wrong!)

Thanks,

Dr. Rosenrosen

[ March 18, 2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Rosenrosen ]

[Captain Pies]

J0ker

In Excel you need to select all the cells you want to print then on the file menu go to print area and set print area. Now do a print preview and all the cells you selected will fill the page

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by j0ker:

Quoted by the commander: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> It takes me no more than a couple of minutes to do what it takes you an hour

gee, i wouldn't be boasting about that [ba-dum-bump] but seriously: please read my post again. I'm talking about the entire process between battles. I don't think an hour is so long of a time to get all of that work done, which I now am [mostly] convinced is correct and i can SEE it on paper.

</font>

[j0ker]

Capn' Pies sez:

In Excel you need to select all the cells you want to print then on the file menu go to print area and set print area. Now do a print preview and all the cells you selected will fill the page

Thanks Cap'n. if/when i ever try Biltaid I'll know what to do.

the Commander sez:

Nope you are taking it all wrong. Misunderstanding rules these days in this world.

boy, don't it ever.

If you read my post(s) you would see that I suggested the Dr. to try both the paper work and BiltAid and follow what suits him best. Same advice to you: if you fell better with paper go for it. Maybe I misunderstood your post and thought you were taking 1 hours to fill the paper and parameters for the next battle. My point is that it really takes a couple of minutes with BiltAid in case you were AT ALL looking to get to the next battle faster.

Sorry for trying to help: Won't happen again!

there's the thing: i wasn't asking for your help. Just trying to add some interesting thoughts.

it's all right, that won't happen again either. I'll just be over here quietly playing.... and happily filling out paperwork... sorry to bother

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Dr. Rosenrosen:

[...]

Here are two ways to score my prisoner favor:

A) I captured 39 guys, including 2 HQ units comprised of 8 men total. This leaves 31 enlisted prisoners. I therefore get 33 points favor (3 for my first enlisted prisoner and one for each additional). I get an extra 8 points favor because I captured 2 HQ units. Total prisoner favor = 41

I captured 39 guys. This breaks down to 12 squad/team/crew units and 2 HQ units. I get 14 points favor (3 for my first captured squad and 1 for each additional) plus 8 since I captured 2 HQ units. Total prisoner favor = 22

Please let me know which method is correct (or if both are wrong!)

Thanks,

Dr. Rosenrosen

I count (and BiltAid) one prisoner favor point per additional squad. Since you said you are using BiltAid prisoners are counted per squad so you should put in as poer method B in the prisoners field.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by j0ker:

]there's the thing: i wasn't asking for your help. Just trying to add some interesting thoughts.

it's all right, that won't happen again either. I'll just be over here quietly playing.... and happily filling out paperwork... sorry to bother

No bother at all. Usually people post here to:

1) ask for help,

2) provide help

3) share thoughts

I took your post as 1) and replied with 2).

3): we do it all the time.

No hard feelings. Keep posting type 3)

[moneymaxx]

I don’t have the opportunity to play CMBB with BCR at the moment, but I certainly will once I get my computer back. Therefore I only read the instructions and a few questions arose, as you might have guessed .

a) Attached units

Are guns with their transport considered to be two units or just one? If they are considered to be two units (e.g. a 75 mm Inf. Gun and a Kübelwagen), wouldn’t that punish the use of guns?

Upgrading attached units

Let’s say I get 60 pts for attached units, I spend 43. The next battle I get another 60 points. If I want to upgrade, how many points can I spend 103 or 120.

By the way, how can I upgrade my Battle Group, am I supposed to do it after all? Think I read, that you get an upgrade if you switch to BCR 42.

c) Calculating the force size

If my Provisional Force Size is 3001 points do I have to choose a 5000 point battle? Or can I just drop some of my task force points to get below the 3000 points mark. E.g., if in a ME I get 3001 points provisional force size, but I have to set the battle at 5000 points, I’ll have a huge disadvantage. Is this considered to be “bad luck” or an unwanted effect of the game mechanics that only allow certain point battles. (Well if it is the second, players should be allowed to drop parts of their task force to get a more balanced battle).

d) Applying your own rules

Well after reading through the rules (twice) and this thread most rules appear to me more or less easy to understand, logical and realistic. Just in one case I would like to use my own rules. How is using ones own rules seen by the BCR community, gamey, horrible, etc. ?

The one rule I want to change for me, is the punishment for loosing you CCO (company commanding officer). I understand that you should keep an eye on him to identify more with your CCO and therefore his loss should be punished. But the rules are just to severe and, even more important, IMHO unrealistic for various reasons:

1) The battalion commanding officer or who ever sends the replacement would never send a conscript CCO because that would seriously affect the efficiency of the company, with negative results for the battalion or regiment. The decision would just backfire.

2) It seems to me that the safest thing to do, with the actual rules, is to place your CCO far away from any firefight. That’s possible because CMBB has Borg spotting and I can command my platoon HQs without even being near them. Though I’m no history grog, I think that CCO had to stay in a relatively short distance from there troops to not lose contact and that hiding wasn’t considered to be the task of a CCO. Therefore the actual rules favour cowards .

My rules would be based on a die roll:

If you roll a 1, your screwed. Some high General pushes through his idiot son with an IQ of 1 and no combat experience at all, because he even ran away from fights in Kindergarten. You begin with favour of -50 and a conscript HQ. If in a future battle you lose your CCO, you get another conscript with –50 favour (otherwise you just would kill that idiot, simulating at the same time that the general’s son always finds a way to escape tight situations. E.g. during a blizzard he attends a conference in Italy).

If you roll 2 to 9 you get a green CCO with 0 favour.

If you roll a 10, one of your Squad HQs gets a field promotion (nice idea mentioned on this board, but I forgot who did it), but you have to have at least one Platoon HQ with veteran status. Otherwise you get a green CCO with 0 favour. If you have one Platoon HQ with veteran status you get a regular CCO with 0 favour.

Die modifiers:

If you roll a 1 no modifiers apply, since it’s a General who pushes the decision through.

If you have at least 1 crack Platoon HQ Die +1.

If you have at least 1 elite Platoon HQ Die +2.

Pheew, that’s a long post, can’t wait to get my computer back, just to bore you with more questions .

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Dr. Rosenrosen:

...

Here are two ways to score my prisoner favor:

A) I captured 39 guys, including 2 HQ units comprised of 8 men total. This leaves 31 enlisted prisoners. I therefore get 33 points favor (3 for my first enlisted prisoner and one for each additional). I get an extra 8 points favor because I captured 2 HQ units. Total prisoner favor = 41

....

Hi Doc - 'A' will be the right one as originally intended, but it's obvious that the rules are ambiguous as it stands now. I had another look at it and moved the two '**'s from the HQ heading up to the General 'Prisoner' heading and changed the note to read:

** These points are for each individual member of a HQ, squad or team.

The effect would be to reward the capture of HQ members even more.

In your case: (8 x 4) + 33 = 65 Favor Points.

This will be implimented in the next update, but you can start using it already

How did you manage to capture so many?

Biltong

[Biltong]

Originally posted by moneymaxx:

...

a) Attached units

Are guns with their transport considered to be two units or just one? If they are considered to be two units (e.g. a 75 mm Inf. Gun and a Kübelwagen), wouldn't that punish the use of guns?

3 Attached units max The Kubelwagen could be used to move other teams around as well.

Upgrading attached units

Let's say I get 60 pts for attached units, I spend 43. The next battle I get another 60 points. If I want to upgrade, how many points can I spend 103 or 120.

103

By the way, how can I upgrade my Battle Group, am I supposed to do it after all? Think I read, that you get an upgrade if you switch to BCR 42.

BCR 42 has detailed instructions in this regard in Appendix B - too lengthy to qoute here.

c) Calculating the force size

If my Provisional Force Size is 3001 points do I have to choose a 5000 point battle?

Yes

Or can I just drop some of my task force points to get below the 3000 points mark.

No

E.g., if in a ME I get 3001 points provisional force size, but I have to set the battle at 5000 points, I'll have a huge disadvantage.

Yes

Is this considered to be bad luck;

Yes

or an unwanted effect of the game mechanics that only allow certain point battles. (Well if it is the second, players should be allowed to drop parts of their task force to get a more balanced battle).

No - Once in a while, as in real life, you will face overwhelming odds - that is one of the few things that make BCR unique. Learning to cope with that situation... That's the gift of BCR

d) Applying your own rules

Well after reading through the rules (twice) and this thread most rules appear to me more or less easy to understand, logical and realistic. Just in one case I would like to use my own rules. How is using ones own rules seen by the BCR community, gamey, horrible, etc. ?

Time to post BCR Goals again Note 5 hereunder

BCR’s Goal is to:

1. Enable players to play a Campaign from June 41 through all of the CMBB terrain until the final day of battle in Berlin.

2. Make sure that the Campaign never becomes Boring – the difficulty must increase, it must be varied and the Campaign must end in a climax.

3. Keep the Campaign as Historically accurate as possible.

4. Keep it short and simple enough to allow most players to understand and use it.

5. Enable anyone to Expand or Modify BCR to his own taste.

6. Provide Excitement, Tension and just good old-fashioned Fun!

BCR is just for yourself… the battle is between yourself and an enemy who grows stronger every year… You will have to become a better commander for you and your men to survive till the end.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Originally posted by Biltong:

In your case: (8 x 4) + 33 = 65 Favor Points.

This will be implimented in the next update, but you can start using it already

How did you manage to capture so many?

Biltong

When they surrendered to me, all of their survivors counted as prisoners, even all of the little crews scattered about the map. Since I filled out the Favor sheet using the AAR stats for everything else, I thought that I should count all these prisoners. After all that's how they count towards my final percentage score.

Or should I differentiate between prisoners taken during the course of the game instead of just at the end of the game?

Actually this brings up a bigger question, when I'm on the losing end. If I am defending against bad odds, what's the best way to survive? If I actually surrender or allow my men to be pummeled, my entire battle group ends up being killed or captured. Then I would start over with a new, inexperienced company. The enemy won't agree to a cease fire unless I give him the flags.

My options in this case become A) move my battle group into hiding away from the flags, let the enemy have them and hope for a cease fire, or move my men off the map and take the hit for the "Fled Map" setting. Either way, I'd take a major hit to favor, but at least my guys wouldn't be decimated or captured.

Any opinions about A or B? Any other options to handle a really bad defensive position?

At least when you are attacking against the odds, the enemy will be more likely to give you a cease fire. How weenie is it to cease fire during turn one if the game looks really stacked? Is it worth going to that extreme to preserve your men?

Thanks for helping me out. I've only done 2 games now and I can feel the addiction creeping in.

Dr. Rosenrosen

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dr. Rosenrosen:

Seahawk, I like your idea of setting up your battle group in the editor first. This gives more control over names, experience, etc. How do I decide what the HQ units bonus parameters should be? Can I just give them all +2s or is there a rule to figure out the settings for all the HQ units?

For those I just get what comes with the units themselves. I did not try to find a way to modify those parameters.

</font>

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Biltong:

[QBBCR is just for yourself? the battle is between yourself and an enemy who grows stronger every year? You will have to become a better commander for you and your men to survive till the end.

[/QB]

And stronger they are, especially now that I practically have handicap Allied +25% and even +50% in the current battle since I was promoted Veteran.

8 September 1941 - Sgt Frederick Boer of the Hauptmann Fuhrer Hawk KampfGruppe.

We keep killing them and they keep coming. For the most we are LOW on ammo and Ivan keeps coming... and keeps dying.

Will they ever stop?

Between us and our own death there are only well placed barbed wire and minefields. But they keep coming... they keep coming... they keep coming...

[moneymaxx]

Thanks a lot Biltong for your quick answer. Seems I'll have to live with a 3000 Axis against 5000 Allied ME .

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Hi there,

I'm really chatty now that I'm trying these things out. Thanks again for the helpful responses.

Setting up battle number three after 2 Total Victories. (What do you expect against unfit conscript with little ammo?) So I rolled a large battle, the big one x5. I followed that up with some lucky rolls, such as Air support (in clear weather) with a point value of 1000. When I multiply that x5, it becomes 5000. Since I have almost 3000 pts in the other categories, I've run out of points to allocate even in the largest battle. Am I supposed to multiple my Air points by the large battle modifier? How should I handle my allowance of nearly 8000 points for this battle? (To answer moneymaxx's post below, it is a ME with no casualties for me so I think that there are no changes to the Purchase Point total.)

(One option would be to purchase 3000 pts worth in the editor and then import those troops with the map. But holy cow! 8000 vs 5000 plus the fact that the soviets are unfit medium infantry with 10% ammo vs my fit medium armor with 80% ammo seems a little bit over the top.)

Thanks,

Dr. Rosenrosen

[ March 18, 2003, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Rosenrosen ]

[moneymaxx]

To answer Dr. Rosen (I'm answering, actually, to see if I understand the system correctly, please correct me if necessary).

I think it depends on the type of battle you rolled and the casualty setting. Your 8000 points are your Purchase Point Total. Then you have to modify this to get your Provisional Force Size.

E.g.:

Provisional Force Size = Purchase Point Total x (1-casualty percentage) / Battle Type Modifier.

If your next battle is an Axis attack the Battle Type Modifier is 1.5. Let's assume 20% casualties.

The Provisional Force Size would be 4267 (8000 x (1-0.2) / 1.5. You therefore set the force size to 5000 points.

If your next battle is an Axis defend with 20% casualties you would end up with a Provisional Force Size of 6400 (8000 X (1-0.2) / 1). You therefore set the force size to 5000 points. You'll only get 5000 points to purchase, assuming from the answers in this forum, the rest is lost .

I GUESS, how you spend them is up to you (after buying your battle group and attached units).

[ March 18, 2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: moneymaxx ]

[moneymaxx]

USE THE ABOVE ANSWER AT OWN RISK!

FEEL FREE TO CORRECT!

NO WARRANTY GIVEN!

[ March 18, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: moneymaxx ]

[benpark]

Sorry, another simple question-When choosing the core group before the first battle, what is the correct choice of perameters regarding which branch of troops? When I start up Biltaid, I see platoons with only 3 squads.

When I go to select my force (in the Scen Editor, so I can load a custom map), all of the standard Inf. platoons are 4 squads-I started with a recon platoon so as to fit the perameters. Am I far off base?

I am playing with Biltaid first, and I plan on playing a PicknClick campaign as well, as soon as I get the hang of it.

I'm going into my 2nd battle tonight (after restarting after my massive first try). Doing better with 30pts of favor-I had 1 platoon doing most of the fighting with the auxiliary forces.

Has anyone ever played without the auxiliary forces?

Thanks! Having a great time.

[Robert Olesen]

The 4-squad platoon is from an infantry division. The default BCR force is from a mech division.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Question about the Task Force selection:

Assume that when I generate my task force in the first QB, the computer purchases a Mech Infantry Battalion (similar to the Mech Infantry company that is the default battle group). How do I think of this when using it as a template for my own task force? Is it a battalion or nothing, meaning that if I can't afford the battalion, I can buy anything I want?

Or if I want to buy infantry, should I limit myself to perhaps a platoon or company of the same flavor?

On an even smaller scale, let's say that I only have 50 pts left to buy additional units, so I can't afford even a full platoon. Should I limit myself only to the 50mm mortars and MG34s that the AI purchased when it bought the battalion, or can I have more freedom to choose what I want since those units were only purchased in the context of buying the battalion?

In other words, are the task force units thought of as individual units, as part of the larger unit that they were purchased with, or somewhere in between?

Thanks,

Dr. Rosenrosen

[benpark]

What is the standard for leadership modifiers? Do these go up? I have just been tracking whatever I got randomly, but it would be interesting to see an extra point given here or there (for reputation, respect from the men etc.) for outstanding service over a prolonged time priod.

Is it possible to keep the same map from battle to battle without the forces? I am in one of those 3 day long battles and I would like it to be over a single map, with changed VL if that must be...

[History Buff]

As Herr Horten peered through the light trees he w the effect of a concentrated artillery barrage. He exclaimed to his aid under the now sparse gunfire, "Wow. That worked well. Praise the 337 mm rockets."

"Yes command had it right this time."

Horten replied thinking of his previous engagement, "Yes. Never trust the Luftwaffe."

Horten ordered his men forward to occupy the line of peasent shacks which were his main objective. They did so with the supporting Armour providing a great metal shield.

As Horten arrived in one of the shacks the fighting had all but died down. He gripped his MP40 and said, the only problem of suceeding so well is we won't get any rest. His aid agreed. The offensive must go on.

Real world:

+++Just gotta mop up some reds.++++