Anti-tank Rifles

[Sanok]

Are anti-tank rifles worth anything? In a recent QB versus the AI, I had a Russian anti-tank rifle firing at a stationary Lynx from thirty-two meters. It hit six times, all on the right side. Two were ricochets and four were no serious damage. The Lynx then merrily rolled on its way.

In a scenario, I don't remember the name, I had a Russian AT rifle firing at a German halftrack from about forty meters. After several hits that did no damage, the HT backed away.

Other than wasting purchase points, what do AT rifles do for you?

[Bone_Vulture]

AT rifles are worth gold, especially if you and your opponent are playing with infantry mix (lower armor cap). It's not likely, but the AT rifles can harm all German halftracks, and most of the armored cars.

And unlike AT guns, they're small, hard to detect, and can retreat quickly if they start receiving hostile fire. Your opponent will likely use light armored vehicles to lure your AT guns out of hiding; use the AT rifle against these.

Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention: AT rifles are also useful to keep enemy tanks buttoned.

[Sanok]

Originally posted by Bone_Vulture:

AT rifles are worth gold, especially if you and your opponent are playing with infantry mix (lower armor cap). It's not likely, but the AT rifles can harm all German halftracks, and most of the armored cars.

And unlike AT guns, they're small, hard to detect, and can retreat quickly if they start receiving hostile fire. Your opponent will likely use light armored vehicles to lure your AT guns out of hiding; use the AT rifle against these.

Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention: AT rifles are also useful to keep enemy tanks buttoned.

You must have had a lot more success with AT rifles than I.

[Yggdrasill]

I absolutely LOVE AT rifles. Much has been written about them on this site, but I will briefly enumerate their virtues.

1. CHEAP

2. LOTS OF AMMO, and some even come with HE rounds, useful against soft targets.

3. EXTREMEMLY HARD TO SPOT.

4. THOUGH NOT DEADLY, THEY WILL KILL LIGHTLY ARMORED VEHICLES.

Against HTs, trucks, light tanks, MG carriers, they are fantastic. May cause crew to abandon. I have killed all of the above with AT rifles, especially as the Russians.

Against tanks they force the enemy to button up. For the Russians this is terribly important, especially in 41 and 42 when you're likely to have a lot of 2-man turret T-34s that have to button up to fire. Keeping enemy armor buttoned puts lessens your disadvantage in tank engagements. Also makes it harder for enemy tanks to spot your AT guns and infantry.

[Tha_Field_Marshall]

I love AT rifles as well I always buy several when playing any side in CMBB or AK. They save your AT guns from having to unmask and kill light recon vehicles. I have had them Gun Damage larger tanks as well.

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by Sanok:

You must have had a lot more success with AT rifles than I.

Yeah well... One time I scored some dozen penetrations on a German armoured car, found out after the match that it hasn't even suffered a scratch.

But, like it others stated: the AT rifles are an excellent, economic choice when you want to harass your opponent, or hunt for his light armor.

[flamingknives]

The best use I've ever found for ATRs is as an Observation post on a very large map (3000pt axis probe in CMAK)

By luck, he was in a position to the side of the main armoured advance, and was able to lay down a very effective fire - killed something like 3 armoured cars and a couple of thin TDs. Not bad for a Boys ATR.

[mrcoffee]

I've knocked out a PZIVg (side penetration hit under 100 meters) and a stugIIIg (track hit and abandonment at 600 meters+) during MP. That being said, it's almost impossible to kill a tank from any range using AT rifles. Their value lies in the possibility of getting a gun hit and of destroying light armor. I think 1 AT rifle per platoon is perfectly reasonable.

[Other Means]

the Soviet 7.63mm (.50 cal) does the job much better. and a light flak better still. they don't move as fast but have a much higher success rate.

for ATR's i echo the above. they are very stealthy & can dissuade light armour. although most people just take the risk. if you're going to use them use a lot. concentrate them against his recon assets. they shine against pillboxes as well.

[flamingknives]

You mean 12.7mm = 0.5" (.50 cal), of course.

7.62mm = 0.3" (.30 cal)

[Other Means]

yes of course. sorry. faulty memory. i knew there was a....6 in it.

[Denwad]

Well the lynx is a big and roomy tank with a lot of room for a penetration to not hit anything.

[dieseltaylor]

Yes buy them >One of the best value weapons you can buy. I have had halftracks , armoured cars and a tank with them.

Great for spotting as they have binos , a range of 800 metres, and hide beautifully. Remember a hit on a tank is a hit , the tank crew cannot get out to examine the calibre so it could be a 45mm , a AA gun so it makes for nervous buttoned up crews --- and more importantly nervous commanders!!! : )

Oh and if you are bored tell it to shoot crewed weapons at range ...

[Determinant]

Originally posted by dieseltaylor:

Oh and if you are bored tell it to shoot crewed weapons at range ...

I like the idea. What does it do?

[mrcoffee]

I noticed there's two different kinds of russian AT rifles. I wonder what the difference between them is. Anyone know?

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by mrcoffee:

I noticed there's two different kinds of russian AT rifles. I wonder what the difference between them is. Anyone know?

The PTRS model is supposedly semiautomatic, so it should have a tad higher ROF. Personally, I've never taken notice.

[flamingknives]

In game terms, 25 rounds of ammo and a slight difference in MV.

In real life, The PTRS was Semi-auto, while the PTRD was bolt-action, IIRC

[Abteilung]

I found AT rifles to be quite usefull in built-up areas and battles taking place in reduced visibility conditions. Especially on defense!

I have had good success using them to fire off a couple rounds at advancing armor, then retreating to cover and popping them up elsewhere to do it again. Combined with a sharpshooter to plink unbuttoned TC's makes them an ultimate annoyance weapon.

I once annoyed my opponent so much that he chose to withdraw and come again at a different approach to the town I was defending. They then ran right over a minefield which had been set up with an entrenched AT gun and MG covering it.

[Sanok]

I'll definitely use more AT rifles. It will be great to see some of the results the rest of you have seen.

[Thin Red Line]

I love them. Used in group, they are deadly for all light armored vehicules.

[ckct]

Anti Tank rifles are great but short range and lightly armour tanks and vehicles. But don't count on them to be your sole main method of taking out tanks.

The best thing about them is they are very hard to spot. Whenever I have soft skin vehicles and know there is an Anti Tank rifle team somewhere in the map, i freak out. They can remain hidden for a long time. I only see them effective from 100 m and under.

[c3k]

I hate anti-tank rifles! In fact, when I find an ATR team which is trying to surrender, the call for a flammenwerfer area fire goes out. Harsh? Yes, but only by the harshest treatment will the Soviet use of this criminal weapon be purged. The liberal use of this fiendish contrivance shows how desperate the Stalinist regime is.

In a recent op, I started with 2 halftracks, a pair of PSW 222 armored cars and an 8-wheeled 232. They were all knocked out by unspotted ATR fire at a range in excess of 500 meters. As was my 37mm PaK and my 75mm lIG. So you can see why my command considers use of this weapon as abrogating any laws of armed confict.

Regards,

Ken

[MikeyD]

Admittedly, if you're facing Panther the AT rifle will be useless, but so would half the available guns in your arsenal!

I think the tide turned for the usefulness of the AT rifle when in a CMBB patch you were finally able to supress non-armored targets like machine gun nests. Before the patch the AT rifleman would 'just say no' to soft targets. Sure, he never seems to actually hit anything but AT rifle fire will drive a mg nest or anti-tank gun to ground.

[flamingknives]

Actually, the Panther is vulnerable to ATR fire at close range and the side - it's as thin as 30mm there.

[MikeyD]

I wonder if the original D model Panther is vulnerable in the game, I can't recall daring to attack one up close with an anti-tank rifle. Anti-tank rifles is why the Panther got its skirts.