Yet another geography issue ...

[Straha]

In fulfilling my duty as superior nuissance :

http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubadnw/history/maps/d1914.jpg

This map of 1914 just serves to show the course of the Danube. In the game, it seems to spring South of Budapest. It should, however make its characteristical sharp 90 degree turn just North-East of Budapest, where it comes more or less straight from the West. We could let it begin somewhat North of Munich. Further West it is too small to be significant, but what is left out here is a strategically important portion of the landscape (used to be the border of the Roman Empire).

Cities: I assume the city on the Rhine is Cologne? What is the city in the North-West corner? If it is Hannover, then it should be where the Airfleet is now. Anyway, I would rather like to see Vienna implemented (between Budapest and Munich). The former Austrian capital was the second biggest city in the Reich after the "Anschluss", and there was a tough fight over it with the Russians.

Straha

[ April 27, 2002, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Straha ]

[Straha]

Then there's the ressource icon South of Cologne ... what is it representing? It should represent the Ruhr-area, but then it should be placed directly North of Cologne. Hmm, maybe that city in the North West is Muenster? Suggestion: delete it and implement Hannover or Vienna instead.

Straha

PS: btw the above is all valid even if that city on the Rhine is meant to beDuesseldorf instead Cologne.

[ April 27, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Straha ]

[Hubert Cater]

I'll look into it

[Ancient One]

I'd like to see Vienna added too. A game of this scale can't have every city of significance, so much abstraction is necessary, but the omission of Vienna is just too much imo.

I'm also assuming, since the map is very similar to CoS, that Portugal is not implemented (in CoS it was part of Spain). If at all possible I'd like to see Portugal added with one city (Lisbon); if entering the war it's armed forces could be one corps defending Lisbon and one cruiser to represent the Portuguese navy.

[Straha]

I want to have Portugal, too! I think, though, that there are more countries than in COS anyway, e.g. clearly Denmark is to the North (it was grouped with Norway in COS). So I think it likely that Hubert has implemented Portugal, too.

Straha

[Hubert Cater]

Don't worry Portugal is in there

[BloodyBucket]

Hey Hubert, (and SuperTed and the rest)...

The responsiveness to the Forum on SC is awesome. Bodes well for the game. Thanks.

[Mr. Clark]

Yeah, I gotta agee with BloodyBucket here. The response to all of our annoying questions and even working with us on some of the issues is really appreciated, and certainly says a lot for the quality and worth of this game.

[Hubert Cater]

I'll go out on a limb here but I think that on behalf of everyone involved with SC, I would like to say thanks for these positive comments. I only apologize if I haven't got to everyone's questions or concerns, my only excuse is that I am still trying to finish up this game!

[SuperTed]

Guys,

Don't believe Hubert for a second. The game is actually done and we have been playing PBEM for the last month!

[Mozzer]

That North African territory looks a bit tight! The distance between the Meditteranean coast and the southern edge of the map looks like about 2 hexes. This was a problem with COS too! Surely if the map doesnt give enough Western Desert to play in there is no way that you can recreate the tactics of the Afrika Korps. Don't forget that Rommel was numerically outnumbered by the 8th Army and used the open flank of the desert to use his panzer forces to turn the flank of the British forces- sometime successfully (Tobruk, 1942) sometimes now (Alam Hafa, 1942). If there are only 2 hexes it will always mean a battering ram of a battle always trying to force yourself through the narrow gap rather that the open thrust and parry of desert warfare. The only place where the desert narrowed that much was El Alemain of course where the Quatara depression narrowed the available front considerably! Oh, can you build new fortifications? Like in COS where you had that nifty engineer unit that you could build the Atlantic Wall/Siegfied Line?

[Hubert Cater]

Although you won't be able to build fortifications like the Maginot line in the game, your units do have the ability to entrench themselves. Entrenchment will also vary depending upon the terrain type, i.e. the lowest entrenchment value for open terrain and the most for capital cities.

[Desert Dave]

And besides, Rommel's problem was supply -- he was asking for 30,000 pounds, but by late '41 was only getting 6,000.

The hex scale would suggest that vast encirclements didn't really happen -- end runs or skirmishes perhaps due to desperation at not being able to confront the Commonwealth head on.

As for the game -- if you punch through in the one hex, you CAN cut off the adjacent one.

Suggestion: how about heavy artillery in SC2 to simulate continuous shelling before a battle, as the Americans always used to good effect?

Though, the Italians could bring up the BB's to accomplish the same thing.

[Barticus]

Originally posted by SuperTed:

Guys,

Don't believe Hubert for a second. The game is actually done and we have been playing PBEM for the last month!

If I may interject a brief comment here;

You, sirra, are an EVIL EVIL man!

Thankyou and good day.

B

PS :

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by Immer Etwas:

...Suggestion: how about heavy artillery in SC2 to simulate continuous shelling before a battle, as the Americans always used to good effect?...

IE,

A good point, but not within the scale of SC. If this was an operational-level game, that would most definitely need to be part of it.

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by Barticus:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SuperTed:

Guys,

Don't believe Hubert for a second. The game is actually done and we have been playing PBEM for the last month!

If I may interject a brief comment here;

You, sirra, are an EVIL EVIL man!

Thankyou and good day.

B

PS : </font>

[J Wagner]

Originally posted by Mozzer:

That North African territory looks a bit tight! The distance between the Meditteranean coast and the southern edge of the map looks like about 2 hexes. This was a problem with COS too! Surely if the map doesnt give enough Western Desert to play in there is no way that you can recreate the tactics of the Afrika Korps. Don't forget that Rommel was numerically outnumbered by the 8th Army and used the open flank of the desert to use his panzer forces to turn the flank of the British forces- sometime successfully (Tobruk, 1942) sometimes now (Alam Hafa, 1942). If there are only 2 hexes it will always mean a battering ram of a battle always trying to force yourself through the narrow gap rather that the open thrust and parry of desert warfare. The only place where the desert narrowed that much was El Alemain of course where the Quatara depression narrowed the available front considerably! Oh, can you build new fortifications? Like in COS where you had that nifty engineer unit that you could build the Atlantic Wall/Siegfied Line?

I was checking out John Prados' Third Reich and decided against shelling out close to 50 bucks for a board game when I will be able to get get SC for almost half the price. I played, and enjoyed, the original Third Riech more years ago than I care to remember. I will note however that I do/did like the 3 to 5 hex width of North Africa in TR than the 1 hex width of SC. I am curious as to why North Africa is so limited in SC. Is the map scale, 60 miles per hex v. 50 miles per hex that much of a difference?

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

What about im the 1940 scenario finland and russia having thier 1939 borders, this makes it too easy for the axis to capture leningrad following finlands declaration of war, the boreder should be moved back 1 or 2 hexes.

[pzgndr]

I was checking out John Prados' Third Reich and decided against shelling out close to 50 bucks for a board game when I will be able to get get SC for almost half the price.

$50? Computer Third Reich is a freebie, pal. Go to The Underdogs. You have to deal with the AI, but that beautiful map is there and everything else.

We'll have to live with the SC map for now. Ideally, I'd love to see the Advanced Third Reich map adopted for SC2, adjusted for the various resources of course. But the SC hexgrain goes N-S and 3R/A3R goes E-W, so that's major surgery. Also, with no stacking, you get into weird port problems and fleet movements. Having another hexrow of North Africa should be possible, and good for desert manuever rather than linear push-and-shove.

Ths SC map is fine for what it does right now. It is a game afterall. Once you get into a scenario and start dealing with the situation, then the map itself becomes secondary. I don't let it bother me anymore. There's so much else to appreciate. :cool:

[J Wagner]

I was refering to the updated board game version of Third Reich. I can understand the confusion because 50 dollars for a board game is a bit steep.