So you want to be a Beta Tester? SC v1.07 Beta Released!

[Ancient One]

I'd like it if the effects of experience would be reduced. A five star unit should be excellent, but not unstoppable.

[Minotaur]

Long time no see... But now that I have something new to sink my teeth into...

So far so good... Everything seems to work fine, except for the "Esc/Toolbar" bug... (See Troubleshooting section)...

I think the most obvious thing that have changed, but not noted in the list of fixes, is the AI...

A good surprise indeed...

- Yugoslavia Pro-Allies Coup happen sometime after USSR declaration of war (playing Axis)... Not very historical, but interesting... Keep the Italians on edge...

- AI seems more efficient at outflanking units and cities... Very noticeable in USSR...

- AI seems more creative in using it's Air Fleet... (German Air Fleet in Italy helping taking Marseille... German Air Fleet in Romania helping taking Yugoslavia... etc...)

- Allies AI more careful when preparing it's "D-Day"... D-Day in mid-1943 is now standard... And of course, because of this year of preparation, they do far more damage... Far more than doing it in 1942...

Good work Hubert...

[Wildcat70]

Hubert

I just wanted to add my thanks to you as well for this patch, and for the game in general. I truley love this game you have created. There realy is nothing else quite like it out there. I've had it since Jan and it has already become one of my all time favorits. There will always be a spot for SC on my HD. Thanks Again!

[KDG]

Hubert

Thanks for the patch, as well as the soon to be released graphics patch. Great work.

What exactly was done to the AI, if you could elaborate?

Also, any chance of seeing jets increased in cost from either 400 to 450, or from 400 to 500? Its pretty unanimous that they are overpowered and overused, thus the cost increase is an easy fix.

Thanks again.

Ken

[ April 24, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: KDG ]

[Ancient One]

Originally posted by KDG:

[Also, any chance of seeing jets increased in cost from either 400 to 450, or from 400 to 500? Its pretty unanimous that they are overpowered and overused, thus the cost increase is an easy fix.

I don't think fighters as a basic unit are necessarily overpowered, but due to their flexibility of their use they can gain experience more quickly and efficiently than other units. I think a better idea would be to lessen the importance of experience by at least half.

[Edwin P.]

Regarding AirPower:

Or you could increase the cost of operating an air unit. This would limit there ability to redeploy from 1 front to another.

-----------------------------

Herbert, many thanks for the new patch. Great job, great graphics.

[JerseyJohn]

Hubert

I can't itemize the differences but I've played a lot since downloading 1.07 and the difference is noticable. For one thing it's a much more enjoyable game without the super in-port carrier boost! Great job, as always.

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks guys In terms of the AI, I honestly don't remember doing anything in particular as it has been a long time between patches but if it appears to be playing better I must have done something right and that is always a good thing

Air power is a tricky one, and I'm still thinking about it but don't expect any more changes here until an SC2.

Hubert

[Iron Ranger]

I haven't, nor seen anyone post on testing the allied minors after a major power falls and what happens to the MPPs. In the past this was one of the great downfalls to losing the UK - the Canadain MPPs vanished and your ability to contol Minors as they were attacked detereated.

Any word on this?

Air Power:

It not a question of fighters being too powerfull (they were and still are the most important unit in large scale combat, even in the 1940's) Example: In late 1944 the allies on the western front were running out of men/needed more combat troops, why? Because even at this late date the Axis powers (germany) still had more combat troops (and better to boot) then the British and American's combined! Then why did that allied attack go so well from June 1944 on? Because of thier OVER powering air force, I don't have the numbers but it was huge, combined with an exellent communication system that allowed fighter/bombers to zero in on axis troops at the drop of a hat, it was the determining factor in the west.

BUT:

In this game it the LONG RANGE ability of the fighters that causes problems. The bombers seam right to history, maybe they should start at 5/7 (sight/combat) as a long range bombing run was there and back while scouting would mean you had to do some searching, but 6/8 seams ok. Now the fighers are another story, they have a much shorter range and even less when involved in combat so I think the 'numbers' should be swaped. Sight range 1 higher then combat range and should start much lower, say 4/3 (sight/combat). Lets look at todays planes, the 'Worthog' is thought of as the best ground attack fighter today - its combat range is less then 225 miles (say four hexs at 50 MPH) and its 2003. Yet in a hitorical game based in the 1940's we have fighters that can range 300 at the start and end up rangeing 550 miles if you recive L5 LR tech. Thats were the problem lies - the damn planes can cover too much ground and perform combat missions. I know combat at this scale is not one day attacks and can cover from 2 weeks to 3 month (turns) but air fleets had a huge lagistical tail and didn't run around the country side during combat - they setup shop and stayed close to the front untill the front moved. Escort duty is another ball of wax - maybe use the 'seach' number as the one for assisting in bomber raids.

Just my thought to the depressing direction that most games end up in. Who can kill HQs faster. It would be nice to see the AA rader Tech increase the air defence of HQs. They act like a strigitic resource (L5 city) why not give it the benifit of being one.

MPH = Miles per hex

[Iron Ranger]

Hmmm - two thoughts

1) Still no 'supply bridge' from USA to Canada. There are three in the game (Den/Sed - Sp/NA - UK/Irland?. Why not put in one more - USA/Can?

2) For fighter's you have three numbers - action points, Attack range, sight range. Right now the attack range is used for bomber escort. If you were to change the numbers to the one's in the above post to 5/3/4, you could use the action point number as the bomber support number and keep it close to historical, as they used drop tanks ect.. to allow them to range out with the B-17's, B-24 ect...

[ April 25, 2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ]

[santabear]

I must have done something right and that is always a good thing

Actually, you've done a lot right, Hubert. A wonderful game got better.

Mr. AI seems to be doing better with large-scale coordination and long-range planning than in the previous version. There are so many variables that it's difficult to be specific, but the game IS better against the AI. So CONGRATULATIONS!

[Liam]

1> One test with Yugoslavia had her come in the game same as usual. Strange as I haven't heard it from others. Using 1.07b

2>interesting suggestion, anyway to stop people from using transport resupply??? When a unit is cut off, people transport amphibious assault getting the readiness bonus

[Edwin P.]

Played several games with 1.07B (and new graphics).

Overall great changes. As for Yugoslavia I have seen the Coup occur as normal and after Russia enters the war (now that's painful for the Axis)

D-Day invasion now launched later in the war, but apparantly no spoiling raids earlier so Germany can still concentrate its forces against Russia.

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If I had to ask for one simple (as it is limited to plotting the movement of units) but interesting AI change it probably would be for more allied strategic naval actions in the Med.

20% > On turn one the UK fleet (Carrier and 2 battleships stationed near Egypt) in the Med race to Manchester,UK instead of staying in place and awaiting their destruction by the Italian Navy. This gives the Allies a stronger force for D-Day, especially with the extra carrier.

20% > On turn one the UK Batteship at Gibraltar and the two French Fleets in the Med move to reinforce the UK Naval Fleet near Egypt.

With FOW off: If the Italian fleet moves towards Egypt the UK bomber operates to Cairo after Italy enters the war. This unified fleet of six surface ships plus the bomber has a good chance of sinking the 5 ship Italian fleet and preventing any Axis conquest of Iraq or Egypt or Greece.

With FOW on: The AI should operate a bomber and (and also an air fleet 50%) to Egypt 50% of the time after Italy enters the war. And operate in the bomber 100% of the time if naval combat in the Eastern Med.

20%> All Med Naval Forces consolidate to the west of Malta and prepare to attack the Italian navy with a bomber moved to Malta for air support. If France falls first and the two Free French units vanish the UK units flee to the Atlantic.

20%> As in option three (Med Naval forces consolidate to the west of Malta) but they are reinforced with d8 fleets from the UK Atlantic & Free French naval fleets. UK Bomber moves to Malta. After Italian Navy is sunk all Allied Naval Units return to the Atlantic except for two assigned to guard the Easten Med against Axis Transports.

20%> Current AI routine. AI Navy in the Med looks for Davy Jones locker and finds Atlantis with the assitance of the Italian Navy.

[ April 30, 2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Genghis]

Wow I disappear for 5 months and get a nice surprise on my return!

Thanks Hubert. Will try 1.07 it out this week.

Hey JerseyJohn - geez you are still hanging around?

[ May 05, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Genghis ]

[Iron Ranger]

I did some detailed testing on the Paris Supply bug and put a note on similar post in the Tech section.

[Iron Ranger]

During SeaLion in v1.06 Russian readness would not go up until the axis held a city in England. During this operation in v1.07 the russian readness does not seam to rise untill England surenders (I think). Any changes on this?

Edit -

Ok more detail - Captured London then the rest of England in the file I send you. Russian readness did not go up, but only Spain had joined the Axis.

Played another game (file on disk) and took London. Checked the Russian readness and it was the same the next turn (Jan 41). Turn two after taking London both Romaina and Hungery joined Axis (not spain) and the Russia readness jumped from 46% to 78% in one turn.

I've seen several games with v1.07 that Manchester or Ednburg are taken before London and the Russian Readness does not rise the following turn. So I guess my question is still - did this change with V1.07?

[ May 10, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ]

[Hubert Cater]

Originally posted by Iron Ranger:

During SeaLion in v1.06 Russian readness would not go up until the axis held a city in England. During this operation in v1.07 the russian readness does not seam to rise untill England surenders (I think). Any changes on this?

Nope, this hasn't changed. In general there are a variety of factors coupled with a random percentage so chances are that simply the last game gave you a different spin that what you were accustomed to.

Hubert

[Genghis]

I'm playing the solo 1939 default campaign setting with Computer as the Axis AI and set at beginner level with no bonus skill points and Fog of war active.

The current game turn is Feb 1942 and the US has just entered the war.

Here are some quick observations in terms of computer play as opposed to other previous SC versions:

1)AI is definitely more aggressive at beginner level. It actively has been exploiting holes and has been relentless on attacks. This is especially true on the Eastern front. AI is using his armor in doing more exploiting than before although it sometimes leaves his armor vulnerable to being surrounded and eliminated. Hmmm is this rash or bold on the part of the AI?

In previous versions, I noticed the AI only attacked Russia half heartedly (despite all settings) and never pursued aggressive tactics.

2)DOW by Axis powers on Denmark and Low Countries was relatively swift (i.e. within 1 or 2 turns after Poland falls) though Denmark didn't get conquered til after France fell in July 1940.

In many of my other games, the Axis would not often attack the Low Countries until a year later it seems which was very odd.

3)Rumania, Hungary, and Bulgaria all allied with the Axis following the Fall of France in July 1940. Italy DOW against France in June 1940

Finland DOW against Russia on 2nd turn after Germany declares war on Russia in July 1941.

Will to continue to play til the end but so far the only weakness I see is that the AI isn't putting a lot of effort in naval transport activities in fortifying North Africa.

Also the North Atlantic Uboat campaign came to a quick end in the 2nd turn of the game.

Overall a certainly much more enjoyable game in this version.

No crashes or bugs yet.

[ May 12, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Genghis ]

[SpitfireMarkX]

Hubert- Any idea when beta-testing for SC2 might start? What month?

[Mockingbird]

Well I tried this latest update to 1.07beta and now I cannot select any of the units on the top half of the screen... if you move the mouse pointer up to the top of the screen, the screen scrolls OK, but if you move the pointer down, the screen scrolls with it.

update:

I had to reboot the computer after the install to get the mouse to work correctly...strange, but playing normally again.

Thanks

[ May 13, 2003, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Mockingbird ]

[Iron Ranger]

Not a bug with v1.07 but a thought on one change from v1.05 to v1.06.

Ind. Technology: In V1.05 this gave each advance a 10% reduction in cost. Both USA and USSR start with L1 and L2 respectivly. I assume that these levels were picked for play balance, giving 18 and 48 MPPs rebate in base MPPs. When v1.06 came out the tech changed to 5% reduction but the tech levels for USSR and USA did not go up to L4 and L2 to keep the value's the same.

Should these be adjusted?

[zappsweden]

Iron Ranger, it is not sure that it was meant as a rebate. It might just have been there lo level out German advantage. Germany could very well be at L1-L3 industrial when USA and Russia joins. However, with the new catch-up system i hardly think anyone would invest much in industrial since it takes long time to break even on the 250 MPP you spend combined with that the enemy gets it cheaper when they catch-up.

[KDG]

Not a bug with v1.07 but a thought on one change from v1.05 to v1.06.

Ind. Technology: In V1.05 this gave each advance a 10% reduction in cost. Both USA and USSR start with L1 and L2 respectivly. I assume that these levels were picked for play balance, giving 18 and 48 MPPs rebate in base MPPs. When v1.06 came out the tech changed to 5% reduction but the tech levels for USSR and USA did not go up to L4 and L2 to keep the value's the same.

I agree.

In version 1.05, USA's units were 10% cheaper, while USSR's units were 20%.

Currently USA's units are 5% cheaper, while USSR's units are 10%.

I believe Version 1.06 wanted to modify Ind. Technology because it was so powerful and everyone was investing in this tech (level 5 could give 50% cost savings). In what I believe was an unintended change was also the reduction for the initial setups for USA and USSR.

I believe USA should start with at least level 2(10% reduction) and USSR at least level 3(15% reduction) to restore the initial play balance that was trying to be achieved.

Comments from Hubert would be appreciated.

[Shaka of Carthage]

I remember this somewhat. I think it was before I started posting.

Anyone is welcome to answer this, but if the Tech chips are "consumed" after each advance, should the IT advance be reworked? As in:

Go back to the original numbers (10% per level).

Different rates for each nation.

Or is it ok as is?

I kinda like the second option, of different rates for each nation. But if all you care about are Greys and Reds, then the same numbers (whatever they are) for each works fine.

[Genghis]

This is also regarding tech.

In my continuing game with 1.07a, I only put in 1 point into UK Jet Fighters and after reaching level 1, 3 turns later I got to level 2 without any points added in.

Is there a chance of getting additional level of tech without adding more points?

I never saw this happen before.

[ May 18, 2003, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Genghis ]