Kuniworth Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 A hot topic. What do you say, is there foul play going on somewhere in your opinion? I vote a STRONG maybe. [ May 17, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I vote for "Could not conclude it". The only live result I seen of cheating is that Hombre demonstrated for me how he could see my ships and also manipulated his MPP to several thousand to convince me that the cheat existed. [ May 05, 2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arngrim Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I'm very inexperienced, but I've never encountered it so far... and I hope not, I mean, what is the point of winning if you're cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 To begin with, PBEM is unsuitable for competitive games. Players, I don't care what the game is, can't compete when any of the elements in volved is the other player's honor. Most people have it most of the time but during the decades I played in chess tournaments there were always numerous safeguards to insure neither player was doing anything unethical -- in other words the option was taken out of the players hands, which is the way it should be. So if you're playing PBEM it's only for a recreational game. Some of us prefer it that way. SC isn't something I want to study and I don't want to worry about winning or losing, it's just something I enjoy relaxing with. Those of us who don't see this as a competitive activity don't worry much about cheating, why should we? If you're any good at this you can reload moves without having it show up in the file -- yeah, yeah, I know the comments that will follow, but if that were the case I ought to never lose. Well I do lose so that's shot out the window and I've also won a lot. Anyone who wants to think I cheated is free to do so, those games were so important that none of the accusers would even know who they were played against, but I'm sure it will come up anyway! It would be very good if there were a way of saving PBEM games during a move because occasionally you have to leave the machine without being able to finish what you've started. It would also be good if reloads were impossible. The same people who play PBEM now would still play that way if it were impossible to reload; if they're PBEM players they aren't obsessed with winning and cheating would be senseless for them. Maybe the way to stop reloads would be to have a system where the move can only be downloaded once in a player's turn, from there it can be started and saved any number of times -- things like undo should be automatically disabled and FoW automatically turned on in PBEM and IP games, in other words, there should be a tournament mode. Once begun, a game should be savable but it would always move forward, no way to go back earlier than the point it was saved at. I've read things from time to time that there is even cheating in IP games. I have no idea how any of that would work and can't speculate on it. But the thing is this, if it's possible to cheat at a game then that game isn't really suitable for competitive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Who is going to cheat over a $25 game? Only a dork. For me its a non-issue. And if someone does it just makes me a better player and them the lowest of the low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Same here, the last time I played any sort of SC game was the last time I played Archibald in the first Ryder Cup, last August -- so cheating is hardly something I'm motivated to do. But the thing is there are some people who do want to play this competitively and I think they should have the right to play in a secure Tournament Mode, if such a thing is possible. What has the price of the game got to do with anything? You lost me on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1 Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Only way to play a game competitively and make a real spectacle out of it, is for two machines Lanned with a referee in the room who did the clean installs himself. Then get the game played live on web cam so all of us can watch it live I think it would be a scream. Now THAT would be epic. Otherwise, I really haven't the slightest interest in competitive games, because there will always be that nagging suspicion that it just wasn't done fully fairly honestly above board all the way. And unless there is a real prize to win, what's the point anyways. Although, after the last TCP/IP game I played, I think I find I like it better enjoyment wise. Was more fun to nag my opponent while we played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 In simple words ....NO.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Everyone knows there are cheat programs. Unlike some of you apparently I'm experienced in MP Games. I've MPed since 1989, are you foolish enough to think Ego isn't worth it for someone to cheat? Even in meangingless non-competition play. Players cheat, it's all about individual. Some do, some don't. The only only surefire way to avoid it is games that get lots of Patches. Ages of Empires was so plagued with cheats, the players released their own unofficial beta to stop it. Axis & Allies had it.<some say no, but it's too simple a program to hack with> World War 2 Online has it.<if you press a button you make your aircraft fade in and out of view, and you can use a program to run faster than a Jeep> Europa Unveraslis has it<sad, built in bugs that any player can take advantage of, mostly. aside from that I'm not aware of actual cheat programs that're used> If you think of SC, in terms of the bugs that can be exploited and how many do it then you realize the mentality of those involved? I'm not Angel either, but I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 A big solution to cheating is when SC introduces REPLAYS (replays that can units to be clicked and stats to be viewed i.e like in campaign editor) and stats about roll average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1 Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Call me arrogant, but damnit all, I never cheat, because damnit all, I AM going to win when I win. And I could care less what you guys think of me, because it's MY opinion of me that counts. Cheaters have weak minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Les, good attitude. Mature, and ultimately let's face it, more fun. In the end everyone ends up with the same Cheat Proggie, and it degrades the game Like Ages of Empires II Conq. when 75% of competitive play was hacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 As I said in my first post here, it isnt a matter of who does and who doesn't cheat, it's a matter of making it impossible or nearly impossible so it isn't an issue in League play. I don't cheat either, except for these Ryder Cup events I don't even play anymore so the opportunity doesn't even exist! But -- if people want to organize Leagues and play this thing competitively they should have a secure Tournament mode to do it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 Ok we can only conclude that it is now proven that cheats exist. FOW-sniffer is for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 The only game which comes to my mind where the programmers adressed cheating seriously was "Alpha Centauri". Lets face it, if you want to cheat you can always do it. Cheats are simple to find. I am simply to lazy to look for them. Besides SC for me is quite bugless. Not like CIV2 and Civ3 where you have endless lists and lists of things allowed and not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Rambo said to me that T_POCHE told him (on ICQ)about how you could move a save to the PBEM folder and open it. If that POCHE dude who I never even heard about found it out, I am sure more players must have come across it. [ May 17, 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Yes, TONY_P asked me about it on ICQ. Can you move stuff within folders, so I thought of trying it with Zapp. Is TONY_P the resurrected HOMBRE PLIN? I believe people cheat. I know people tried to cheat me in PBEM too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I believe people are always nice and they are LAZY though if it is to complicated to cheat they won´t do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaggmoth Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 A way to spot cheats in PBEM is guarding every suspicious turn and after the game ask the password and replay those turns as the other side. If there is a Judge in any league who can ask the password to every player in case of doubt or in ramdom games this could prevent cheats ,if they really happen ,of course the problem could be find someone with the time and will to replay those games. Even so it´ll be hard to be 100% sure of cheating but at least it can disuade most of the possible cheaters. [ May 17, 2004, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Yaggmoth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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